14-04-2012 12:16 AM
I've spent hours on the phone today trying to sort out a problem with my daughters Bold 9900. BBM and data on the phone isnt working, the HRT has 'no entries' and no amount of switching from 3G to 2G, switching networks back and forth, hitting 'register now' at the HRT screen works. I've spoken to lots of TS people most of whom stick ridgidly to their pre-determined script even asking me at the end of every conversation when they have failed to fix my problem 'is there anything they can do to help me'!! when patently they can't.
I've read the forums and quite clearly this is a provisioning issue at Vodafone even though they say its the device - so know I face having to send it to them, probably have it wiped of alll data and be without my daughters phone for an age when it should be a simple task at their end.
All these problems started when I updated to the latest OS - I'd deliberatly not done it before because the crappy BBdesktop programme last time I updated made me have to set-up lots of programmes but as the balsted thing kept switching it self off ovenight I thought what could go wrong with a simple OS update - now the only thing that she wanted from it (BBM) is not working - joke telecon, joke manufacturer.
My own fault probably though should have made her have an iphone! It was bad enough getting it in the first place what with broken promises, poor enterprise systems - but this is just taking the mickey.
14-04-2012 01:18 AM
Have you tried reloading the OS?
15-04-2012 10:01 AM
I’m sorry to hear that you are having problems with this. I appreciate your frustration with this, but this is definitely something we can sort for you.
I’ll send you a private message explaining exactly how to get in touch with us.
You can find your PM inbox here
16-04-2012 03:20 PM
I've replied to the PM.
Spent over an hour with the 'tech-team' in a store - they did all the things I did, then spoke to 2nd line tech support (like I did) then handed me my phone back and said it needs to go for repair - its pitiful!
To add insult to injury when I was trying to sort this out on Friday I spoke to a customer service bod and i relayed my view that Vodafone were in breach of a fundemental element of my contract with them and unless they resolved it I would consider it a breach - I asked for this to be annotaed to my account and emailed to me - but customer services cant email customers (what a joke initself) but if I emailed my request through it would be actioned. So I duly filled in the form and guess what an email from Vodafone saying if I filled in a new form and snet them £10 they would send my all the data they held on me within 40 days - not what i wanted at all - as I say a joke!
Get home today and the repair package has come with the fault described as 'joystick rollerball performs wrong function 1 in 10' - Not the fault at all! They really don't appear to have a clue!
Bad Technical staff
Bad Customer Service
17-04-2012 09:09 AM
So, As i'm sat here waiting for someone for the e-forum to get back me and not wishing to send my handset away for it to be wiped I spend a lot of time reading this forum and it seems to me that one of the biggest issues (well since February anyway) is with provisioning handsets - i.e. lots of people have the lower case grps, edge or 3G (just like me) and all the staff posts seem to indicate a provisioning problem at VF - if as it seems it a lnog standing and known issue - why aren't the 191 staff able to solve it? Is their no communication between teams at VF? It just strikes me as a further exapmle of VF disregard for its customers - perhaps all telecons are as bad each other but it just beggars belief - or is it to do with the substandard service received so often from 191 which seems to be a byproduct of the offshoring to cheaper economies?
17-04-2012 01:13 PM
It is a pain when you cannot get something resolved quickly.
Do bear in mind that with forums such as this, you will see a majority of people complaining. This is due to the nature of these forums: they are for people to raise problems. It is very unlikely that someone will come on here to say everything is working. Indeed, even if someobody does get their issue resolved, the majority of the time, they will not say so. I've worked in various forms of customer service for nigh on 25 years, and know that people are 10 times more likely to complain than they are to say thanks.
Saying that, though, bad service exacerbates what is already a bad situation.
As for your issue: lower case signal type (gprs, edge or 3g) does suggest that a BlackBerry tariff has not been added to your daughter's line. However, the problem will either lie, in order of likelyhood, with the line, the SIM card or the handset.
Here are some steps that I would check through:
1. Can the handset make & receive calls ok? If not & Vodafone are claiming the line is unbarred, then I would get them to check that the line has been properlly connected to the number printed on your daughter's SIM card. Also, putting the SIM card into another phone, just to see if it can make calls, would either indicate straight away if the issue is the SIM card or the handset.
2. Is this a new line? If so, first off, I would get Vodafone to check it has the BlackBerry tariff added to it.
3. HRT registration will not work if the BlackBerry tariff has not been added. If you have been told that it has, then go into Manage Connections from the main screen. Scroll down and select Network and Connections, then select Mobile Network. Ensure that Data Services is switched to ON. See if that changes the signal type to upper case. If it doesn't, go to the next step. If it does, then see if you get a new email from BlackBerry to say that the handset is registered. If you don't, regsiter through HRT again, and see if you get the email. The email is important as it confirms that you have the data connection required to set up email and use BBM..
4. On the same Mobile Network page, scroll down to Network Selection Mode and change it from Automatic to Manual. The handset will now scan for all networks it can see. When it presents you with a list, select any network other than Vodafone. You will be told that you can only make SOS calls, this is fine. Once connected, then scan again and this time select Vodafone. doing this will knock your SIM card off the Vodafone network, and when you connect back onto Vodafone, it will refresh and help the network push down new settings. Now, has the signal type chnaged to capital letters? And have you received the registration email from BlackBerry? If yes to the signal type but no to the regsitration, try the HRT registration again. Also chnage the Network Selection Mode back to Automatic.
5. If you are unable to do the previous step, then with the handset switched on, remove the battery and SIM card (called a hard reset). Reboot the handset without the SIM card and hard rset it again acouple more times before you put the SIM card back in. This does a similar thing as refreshing the SIM card. Again if the signal type changes to capital letters, ensure the handset has registered to the network.
If after all of this, you cannot get the signal type to change to capital letters, and Vodafone assure you that the BlackBerry tariff is definitely on the line, then you could be looking at a dodgy SIM card or a faulty handset. Try and get the SIM card replaced first. If this still doesn't fix the isssue, then it looks as though it is a faulty handset.
If there is stuff that your daughter wishes to keep from the handset, then you can create a backup by downloading onto a PC (or Mac) BlackBerry Desktop Software. Once downloaded, you just plug the handset into the computer and select Back up now.
I know these steps may seem alot, but doing them will help both you and Vodafone.
If you can reply back to this message saying what steps you have done, and the result of each step, then this will help one of the Vodafone Tech guys on this forum diagnose, and hopefully resolve the issue. Believe me, the guys on this website are good.
Do let us know how you get on. I would be interested in seeing what the issue was.
17-04-2012 02:02 PM
I do appreciate your comments - my difficulty though is that I have tried everything to resolve this without being too aggravated but now my frustration levels as just way too high - not by the fault, these things happen, but by my own stupidity. I wanted to leave Vodafone because the entire expereince has been bad - poor reception, poor handset quality, poor customer service - but I stayed with them and am now locked into a further two years for two devices - my other two devices also also with Vodafone but now out of contract so I could move them but then I have to deal with two telecons!
My major frustration is with the poor service - I have wasted hours on the phone being made to go through repeated step after step like an idiot - I've done all the steps asked of me repeatedly by customer services, first line support, 2nd line support, the tech-team in store but all to no avail - my only option therefore is to now send the phone away when and it will be wiped which will then require me spending time getting it back again as it was when it finally returns - and you know what so far not a single apolgy from Vodafone - the only thing I have done to the phone which has worked for months (but with intermitent glich after glich, turning itself off, not charging, not taking receiving texts etc) is to apply the software update that I put off for months beacuse the first time I updated the software I again had to spend hours re-installing stuff onto the phone as the update failed - I should have just put up with the intermient faults because in comparison it was fine compared to this - voice is rarely used, texting is no problem as we have phones galore to text from, facebook, IM she can use her ipad but the only thing that she really uses is BBM and that is what isn't working and I have no alternative to blackberry for that until I am able to convince her - its just not worth the aggravation - but back to my point, yes, the ridgidly sticking to business rules and pre-determined scripts from the support staff particulary the offshored staff who just don't seem to realise that customers can be spoken to rationally and with independent thought, but no I have to follow my script which says 1) do this, 2) try this, 3) do that - I was on the phone for an hour relaying my converstaion to 1st line support who was speaking to 2nd line support because I wasn't allowed to speak to him! and one operator who I started the call with me saying I didn't want to go through all the steps insisted I should and then when she couldn't do anything got shirty as 'she was only trying to help' and 'was there anything else i needed today?' - No I phoned to get my phone fixed! - even though its not fixed did she really expect me to want to a) buy a new phone?, b) enquire about oversee calling rates, c) enter a VF competition to Bangalore? !!!!
This has been quite carthatic, thank you! bit back to your suggestions:
1) Yes, the phone can make and receive calls and texts. The sim works in other phones for texts and calls.
2) VF line for years, switched to BB tarrif last October/November, been on BIS since then. Vodafone web site shows:
Your Plan comes with 600 minutes, unlimited texts, 500MB mobile internet, 1GB BT Openzone Wi-Fi and Blackberry e-mail - when phone is not on wif-fi though no data connection is available - no web browser, no facebook, even with wi-fi no BBM - sometimes get a message saying 'my tarrif doesn't allow this activity- speak to network' - so I do think it is a provisioning issue at VF (even though VF say everything at there end is fine).
This is the problem VF say it is fine and BIS is enabled but everything thing about the phone says it isn't! Step 3 is redundant because of this but now done the step or something similar 50 or so times HRT is 'no entries', register now does not solicit any response, I've downgraded the os, upgraded back, downgraded again and now finally upgraded again. Service Books have been in/out, in/out due to this and the tech-team chap who looked at it also appeared to have deleted them completely during his hour playing with it! (with no avail).
Step 4) - I've done and done, manual, automatic, 2G, 3G, 2G and 3G - all to no avail.
Step 5) Hard reset it time and time again.
I've little confidence in BDM especially as during one of the downgrade/upgrade loops I was presented with a fatal error (which didn't seem too fatal just stopped that actual upgrade/downgrade and then it worked again later - but I have now manually copied all the data onto my computer using the BB purely as an external usb drive - I will have to just reinstall any applications from scratch.
And so to your final point - I'm sure the guys are here are good - they have after all promised (perhaps now contractually!) that 'this is definitely something we can sort for you'. - which definately leads me to beleive this is no an uncommon issue and given the posts on this forum (and in particulary a spate from around the middle/end of Feb) one they are quite familiar with but time is running out for them to contact me before I do send it for repair - the repair it needs not some imagined faulty trakckball 1 in 10 issue (this is the sort of poor customer service I'm taking about) - as its now about playing the margins - do I jsut send it away accepting that they will do a standard re-set and re-imaging of the device and which will wipe all the data but at least start the process of it being fixed or VF agreeing its a ###### hs or do I wait and see if it is something at VF to do with provisioning which I think it is, but VF to now insist it isnt? - I'll leave it for another hour or so and then its off to the Post Office with it And then I await the next thrilling instalment from VF - they will probably lose it, say I never had it, say its an out of warrenty repair for £100 or maybe, just maybe they may fix it and return it, I never have another problem with it and everyone lives happily ever after!
17-04-2012 03:30 PM - edited 17-04-2012 03:37 PM
Cheers for your reply. I do really appreciate your frustration with the service that Vodafone have given you. I work in in tech support for an independent mobile provider, and placing myself in the customer's shoes plays a big part in the support I give (also I do not work from a script, I work from my own personal experience).
It does seem that the handset is at fault, although not knowing if data was switched on muddies the waters somewhat. Also a SIM card replacement may have solved the issue (we have had situations where the SIM card has been working fine but then gives up the ghost).
It also sounds like the tariff is on the line, since the handset was working fine. There was an incident a month or two ago, when provisioning was lost on numbers that were SIM swapped, but any decent Vodafone tech guy would have been able to see that during troubleshooting.
As for BlackBerry Desktop Software (currently on version 6.1), in the 3 years that I have been using and supporting it, I have never come across a fatal error while updating or downgrading (and believe me, I use it alot! Not just my handset, but customers' and staff). I would suggest that you uninstall this and re-install it. The latest version can be found here:
Copying from the BlackBerry on board software is not going to include a lot of the settings, if at all. Saying that, I would be interested to know what it does backup though.
As for 3rd party applications, ie applications that are downloaded from App Wolrd as opposed to those that came pre-installed, these are never backed up, except when you do a handset swap.
Anyhoo, none of this is relevant know seeing as you are sending the handset off. I hope that the replacement/repaired handset resolves the issue.
As for the poor customer service you have recieved so far, I would defintely formally complain. If normal channels don't work, go further.
17-04-2012 04:10 PM
Thanks- I've just handed it in at the post office. We shall see what Vodafone do with it now.
As my confidence in VF is so low I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back with a note telling me that the trackball is fine or it gets lost in the post. The lady in the post office (who knew straight away it was a phone repair) pointedly asked if I wanted to purchase insurance ontop of the proof of posting as they had recently had some customers whose phones never reached the repairer!
18-04-2012 12:04 PM
Thank you for your posts and it is great to see you, I only wish it was under better circumstances.
I can see that Heidi has been in touch to help resolve your query from following the PM previously and we will continue to communicate in this way.
I understand your frustration and I am not just typing that because I have to, we use our devices more these days and it is a large part of our daily lives, so when something does not work we all feel a little lost.
We do have troubleshooting steps which have to be done, this is because often it will help identify the issue or even resolve it, but we are human and I believe it is not just a matter of what we say but how we say it.
If you could reply back to the email sent from Heidi with the information requested we will be in touch as soon as we can.
18-04-2012 08:20 PM
Thanks for the post. Today I have received the email and replied (and a call to the phone) but by the time the email arrived though I had sent the offending off phone to the repair centre (as I had stated in my last post). There was a balancing to be done between waiting for a contact (as I do believe it to be a provisioning issue) or continuing to delay what seems like an inevitable (on the basis that lots of VF staff have had me pushing this, switching that, resetting this, pulling that!) return to the repair centre and the device wipe I had so wished to avoid.
I just think it is such a shame that 1st line tech in particular have to follow a standard business script when quite clearly the customer wishes a rational conversation. I understand the need for consistent process management but when this is the customer 4/5 phone call with the same problem it so frustrating to be treated, frankly, like an idiot. Even when I told an agent I did not wish to follow any further steps to resolve the issue and that I simply wished her to record my dissatisfaction she insisted I went through the steps I had undertaken many times before (with no different outcome this time). It is even more galling when I later ask for confirmation that my dissatisfaction to be recorded on my account that I find it hasn't been - but that is a different rant for a different time.
All in all, I have to say the level of service I have received from Vodafone on this has been extremely poor - and I can't help but feel that Vodafone believe that when they have customers locked into a contract they can treat them as shoddily as they wish. I won't make the mistake of renewing any of my contracts with Vodafone when they become eligible for renew.
Now I just hope that the phone is returned within the expected 7 day period and that it works when returned. But to be honest as my faith is Vodafone is so low and my experience has been so bad I'm stealing myself for a) phone being lost in transit, b) phone being returned - 'no fault found' or c) a bill - if any of these happen I'm sure I will be back in touch.
20-04-2012 01:22 PM
Well, had email today saying phone is repaired and will be back to me within two working days. No indication of what has been done to it. After it comes back I'll re-post - I just hope beyond hope that it comes back working. If not it will just be adding insult to massive injury. Oh when its all sorted I'll post another thread showing the terrible email exchange I've being having with Customer Services about my account during all this - If I thought Technical support was a bit ropey they make normal Customer Services look fantastic.
23-04-2012 01:48 PM
Well another email today, in response to my customer service complaint - doesn't deal with the issues I raised (but no change there they have emailed me three times already without reading my complaint of trying to answer it correctly) but does tell me my phone has been exchanged. No other detail - just have to wait and see whether there is any further detail when the phone is actually returned to me. At no time was I advised that I may not get my phone back - this is the I've heard of it - really the Service I have had is just abymsal from start through to finish.
I also see on here that they send out re-furbished phones, well if that is what they have done in this case I will be even unhappier - where else do you send a faulty item back and then have to expect a second hand replacement if it can't be fixed - surely that's a breach of the Sales of Good Act where I should expect the phone I have purchased to be or merchantable quality or if not to be replaced with a new device.
If I do get a a brand new device - so be it - but anything else will simply be not acceptable.
If anyone is reading this prior to switching to Vodafone -please take my advice, don't switch!!!!
23-04-2012 06:52 PM
So lo and behold, I get home and yes, they have sent me a second hand phone!
So this is how it works:
1) You buy something brand new from Vodafone
2) You pay them the money you have agreed every month
3) The phone is unreliable and constantly reboots, switches itself off, but eh for an easy life you just put up with it
4) After 4.5 months of use, it gets worse so you update the software
5) The phone is bricked
6) You waste hours talking to technical services, get treated like an imbecile by vodafone staff, waste time in a store with the 'tech-team', get embroiled in appalling customer service by customer service staff not being able to read an email thread and understand the nature of a complaint
7) You sent the phone of for REPAIR
8) They can't fix it within 'a reasonable timescale' (three working days at least) so they send you a second hand phone with a standard letter asking that they 'hope you are pleased'.
Someone tell me this is all a bad dream - If I had wanted to buy a second hand phone I would have done. I would have taken a cheaper 'sim only deal' without a long contract - this is just not on - Vodafone sold me something, it doesn't work, you can't repair it, you should send me a new one! It simple really - it would be exactly the same for any other appliance - I wouldn't accept a second hand television for one that failed within four moths so why should I be expected to agree to this?
I'd be grateful if someone from Vodafone could contact me (on my number not my daugthers) beacuse this just isn't on. I think that I'm within my rights to legally reject the original phone which is already within your posession as it is within a reasonable time to do so and I look forward to you confirming that you will supply me with a replacement brand new phone. As for the diabolical customer service I'll just write that off to experience but I would urge anyone thinking of giving any money to Vodafone to look at how they have treated me - you could be next, so make your purchasing decision wisely - I wished I had.
23-04-2012 08:41 PM
24-04-2012 08:19 AM
The worst interactions both by telephone and by email have been with the staff who appear to have been offshored to to Indian Sub Continent but it would be wrong to suggest that is the extent of the problems I have had with vodafone. I have had one OK (i.e.. Pleasant and friendly) exchange with a tech-team member of staff in store (he was unable to fix the problem though) and a really bad experience experience with a tech-team member of staff who the first one passed me to when he couldn't fix it - who was just really bad at customer care - none eye contact, no listening skills, obviously superior technical skills but lacking in people skills (he didn't fix it either!).
My total experience with Vodafone with this phone as been the worst ever from the time I ordered it, with broken promises, left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing, poor enterprise systems not communicating properly - through to the actual product itself (switching itself off, not canceling calls through to its ultimate failure) and now the repair experience.
Vodafone used to be the biggest mobile operator (by subscriber numbers) in the UK and now it is the third - it is easy to see why! The only element of their service which has worked seamlessly for me on this phone has been the billing - which ultimately is all Vodafone seem bothered with - they are unable to provide me with a decent service, to resolve to my satisfaction my complaints, to even it seems on occasions to understand why I am upset with them - but they are able to take my money without fail and without any difficulty. Well that business model is sustainable for a time but ultimately it fails when enough customers like me decide enough is enough.
Personally I'll wait to see what happens on this latest installment but I have four accounts with VF, two of them I can move now and two of them I am locked into for too long for me to afford buying my way out of them - but as soon as I am able to I will move all the accounts to another provider. I'll be contacting Trading Services today to see about my issue about my phone not being repaired and me being sent a second hand one - but regardless of the outcome of that - my next mobile operator will not be Vodafone.
24-04-2012 01:36 PM
24-04-2012 01:45 PM
I sent my last email to email@example.com yesterday at 18:57 from my primary email account. I included the reference number WRT135 # 8841462 - the email stated everything as per the post around the same time on the forum.
24-04-2012 02:04 PM
if it helps finding the email threads I had one from you on 19th April @16.11 and one from Heidi on 18th April 2011 @11.17 all with the same reference WRT135 8841462.
Other emails to and from vodafone have related to the customer service element of the issue rather that the substantive issue of the fault/repair/replace issue the VF reference for that is 8826842 again the same email addresses have been used.
25-04-2012 02:42 PM
I can see that you last email was replied to on the 23/04/2012 by Heidi however there isn’t any further emails from that email address in any of our queues.
If you would like to discuss your issues further please reply to Heidi’s email and we will be able to pick this up for you.