08-04-2012 09:22 PM - edited 08-04-2012 09:36 PM
Well here is my thoughts
Most phone's have removable batteries ,up until Now the only phones that haven't are the Iphone and The Nexus.
Now Apple have got the Battery problem sorted up until recent with a firmware flop!!!
But there seems to be a move over by other manufactures to non removable
Now this is not what we asked for in many cases having a removable battery was a major selling point and a one up against Apple.
With smart phones the Battery is a major concern and should be when purchasing a phone.
eg what your going to use it for and for how long
Now as we no the screen is a major drian on the battery , So when the screen are getting bigger but the batteries are not !!
or not buy much.
now the Big boy the Note has a Standard battery, Li-Ion 2500 mAh and has not worried its users Yet!!!!
But many are under this, many are under 2000mAh
But that is not a worry if you can change the battery over or buy a bigger battery.
The lates phone the HTC one X has a Standard battery, Li-Po 1800 mAh but this has a 4.7" screen but you can not change the battery oh dear ...
Now I race RCcars and have been using Li-Po's for ages yes they don't have a memory, But They have a life span and its not alot and when they go they just stop, Now this would not be a problem if you could swoop the battery
So how long will the Battery last, what is its life
When Challenged HTC say the battery will last the life of the phone !!
HTC only offer a 12 Month warranty on there phone, is this the life of the phone ????
And on other phones this does not cover the battery
So are HTC only saying there phones only last 12 Months ???
But on there new range of phones what happens is when your on a 24 Month contract the battery fails 14 Months in, the phone is out of warranty!!!
This is something we can not change our self, so Big repair bill needed to change a battery !!!
I no two Mobile phone engineers that have both said that it will cost at least £150 to fix, the battery being the main price and then labor charge.
Now Even insuring your phone will not cover this.
Now its not just HTC But Nokia are doing the same thing...
Phone shops are loving this as they could make some serious cash fixing these phones just for batteries, Even the one I do work for rubs his hands at the mere thought of it...
Motorola listened to there customers and changed there phone to the MAX with a bigger removable battery now it lasts
One other worrying last Point
after 24 months if you were lucky who will want to buy a phone that needs £150 spending on it to put a new battery in ???
So re sale at the end of your contract is out of the window
when they were asked about this they avoided the question
Somthing is not right with a phone with Non removable batteries !!!!
i no iphones have been out there but they have got better batteries and have don alot of development on there battery
Others have not
Now one manufacture is due to bring out there new phone and that is samsung
The Massive Note has a removable battery even its tablets have or it can be done with a screw driver
and they cover there devices for two years
People need to think long and hard now and not look at design and the screen size
And yet again its Batteries until they sort this out then they need to stick to removerble ones
08-04-2012 10:14 PM
08-04-2012 10:20 PM
22 months after getting my iphone 4 and the battery life is steadily decreasing, but still very good when mobile data is turned off. I am actually surprised at how long its lasted tbh. My contract ended ages ago but went to sim only as I like my iphone more than anything else on offer atm.
Maybe those extendable battery cases are an option - they do look kinda chunky though and obv wont solve the defective battery problem. I guess like laptop batteries they all have a finite length of service. My background is in materials chemistry and device lifetime is not the top priority in the world of research; it is fairly widely accepted that 2-3 years is the average life of a product before you will look at upgrading to the latest product. The majority of warranties are 1 year, and usually for a reason. I fear the days of having TVs and other electronics for 10-20+ years are over. Products are being rushed to market before we know how robust/stable the materials are inside them. We saw that with plasma displays and this was a huge hurdle for OLED displays.
P.S. Of course if you do have insurance and your battery was dying it would be a very bad thing if you accidentally smashed/lost your phone soon after, resulting in an insurance claim and repair/replacement at the cost of the excess.
09-04-2012 01:20 AM - edited 09-04-2012 01:22 AM
Now a Iphone battery starting to fade that shows even a well developed and researched battery does show there not ment to last
But if you could change the battery on it would go.
Now there is a strong second hand market in mobiles many phones ending up as pay as you go devices
many in the hand of teenagers my son has a five year old Blackberry still going strong with a new battery
My old Iphone has long gone and does need a new battery
But my old Samsung omnia is still up and running just fare to complicated for any one to use lol
My son has just made a tick sheet with the pro's and con between the
HTC one X and the Note and now he knows the Samsung has a two year warranty and the battery will come out with that the note won
Little does he know he might be getting one
My worry is that HTC and Nokia have done this to sell more phones making them useless after 24 months.
Battery care on the HTC devices and the Nokia is a must the Nokia with the tiles I think will be the worse.
Very strange thinking here
10-04-2012 12:33 PM
Didn't like the idea of a non removable battery on my N8 but after 2 years have not had any issues with it,
The manufacturers may claim a 1 year warenty, but the EU stipulates 2, there was a recent court case in Italy where apple got ticked off over this issue and the same consumer protection laws apply here
However batteries have never been covered under the warenty,
I know nokia care points (usually carphone warehouse repair centres) will replace a battery without charging for labour, tho you have to pay for the battery.
10-04-2012 01:18 PM
I charge my phone daily and the battery does not seem to get worse, i really think that the market needs to look at innovation when it comes to batteries and perhaps looking at a new type of technology as 1 day for a phone is poor .
I remember the days of the old Nokia devices with 1 week of battery!
11-04-2012 02:55 PM
You're right, new tech is needed for longer battery life. However smartphones are more battery intensive than the older handsets, especially those that don't have web access. Apple seem to be making everything else in the phones smaller, and using the free space to stick in a larger battery.
The current lithium ion/polymer battery tech has always had a finite lifespan and will degrade over time, the question is how soon will it degrade and how expensive is it to repair?
I wonder whether the future technological advances in electrically powered vehicles that will use smaller, higher density batteries for energy storage will be transferred to electronic devices....Maybe a solar powered phone, covered in a photovoltaic coating? Or even hydrogen fuel cells... see http://www.cellaenergy.com/index.php?page=Markets
12-04-2012 09:16 PM
16-04-2012 12:04 PM
As for why are they doing it, I would assume it's because it makes the design of the phone much easier particularly if you're trying to get the size and weight down. For a battery to be removable it has to be at the back of the phone, it needs a removable cover, it needs a bay to sit in and it needs contacts to connect it to the phone. If you use a fixed battery you are freed up from any of these constraints.
The other omission I've noticed becoming increasingly common is the lack of a micro SD card which is also very concerning - Apple obviously have never offered expansion but now the Galaxy Nexus doesn't nor does the HTC One X and the Nokia Lumia phones also lack them. I thought the Galaxy Nexus would get slaughtered for not including one and only having 16GB memory but people don't seem to be bothered, similarly I've seen people defending it on the HTC one X which I don't get at all. Firstly I don't think there is any excuse for not having micro SD storage on these big phones when even the tiny X10 Mini has one (and a removable battery!) and secondly these powerful phones really need the storage as their ability to record in 1080p and play back HD video on their 720p screens all takes up a lot more space. It also means you can back up data to the sd card and have it available in the unfortunate event the main phone dies.
Needless to say I'm pleased the Galaxy Note has both a removable battery and micro SD expansion but sadly I suspect this is an increasing trend not to have them.
16-04-2012 05:15 PM
2 kids, 2 phones, 2 weakened batteries. One is an HTC the other an iPhone. HTC battery gets replaced for the grand total of £5. Other the battery replacement service costs £55 plus handling. Result is one kid has a seviceable phone and a battery that lasts all day. The other has to limp round for the next few months with a sad and crippled phone because he is unwilling to fork out the 60-odd quid.
I myself have 2 batteries which I rotate. I normally get through the day OK but there are times when usage goes up and a spare battery does not take up much space.
17-04-2012 11:20 AM
I also agree with the lack of SD card slots
manufacutures seem to think that by doing the same as apple may sell phones errrrrrr Nope More like cost cutting
My device has 8GB and 32gb external and 720p does use alot of its storage
What these manufactures don't no is there walking right in to Apples hands
If a person wants a phone with external memory and a battery there not going to go with Apple or Nokia or HTC.
There learnt this with the Tablet market when Samsung brought out there tab 10.1 that had no external sd, but a removerble battery
Now the new one has a sd slot but now a non removerble battery
Lets hope the S3 has both it has is will sell loads
I have a old Iphone 3s but the battery is dead to sell it its going to cost me £75 for a new battery just to sell it
17-04-2012 03:24 PM
The moral is never to buy a second hand iPhone. It will likely cost you considerably more than you bargained for.
I'd recommend the EU tax consumer units with sealed in batteries at a higher rate. They artificially increase the levels of consumer demand. 2 of my past phones (with fresh batteries) are still in active use. The oldest is a SE W880i which I guess must be 5 years old, now. As a phone it works just fine.
20-04-2012 07:50 PM
Yes but does that mean now that phone have a 24 Month life span
I have had the HTC one s to check out
and the battery takes ages to charge the charging is done slowly which does not help if it drains
Most phone will charge fairly fast
One thing that has now come in to it and may see a reverse is
a removable battery can be recycled and even by the user
So the EU is wanting to no what happens with the phones battery
Also the companies that give you money for your phones the high end devices get sold on to third world countries
They replace the batteries, Now they carn't so this will drop the price on what you get for the phone
21-04-2012 06:12 PM
"2 kids, 2 phones, 2 weakened batteries. One is an HTC the other an iPhone. HTC battery gets replaced for the grand total of £5. Other the battery replacement service costs £55 plus handling. Result is one kid has a seviceable phone and a battery that lasts all day. The other has to limp round for the next few months with a sad and crippled phone because he is unwilling to fork out the 60-odd quid."
Don't be so ridiculous, go buy a new Iphone! I mentioned the engineering issues with having a removable battery but of course there is the other side of it which is faced with the hassle of trying to get a fixed battery replaced, many will just buy a new device which is great for the manufacturer. It is a bit strange with Apple as I will see friends complaining that their non-Iphone has a fault at which point everyone will recommend they give up said phone because it's rubbish and buy an Iphone which happens frequently. They buy the Iphone then later down the line when they're having trouble, the advice isn't to brand the Iphone as rubbish for its faults and buy a different brand, it's to buy a new Iphone which doesn't really make much sense.
It is good to see people criticising the lack of removable batteries as I find it alarming when review sites praise non-removable batteries. Apple started sealing their laptop batteries in as well just like their mobile devices which I expected them to get a slating for but no, reviewers were praising Apple for their smart design and extended batterylife. This appalled me as I find removable batteries very handy on laptops as I generally opt for the extended models which lift the back of the machine up giving a slight angle on the keyboard which is better for typing and giving the machine's cooling system more air to work with, it also means when I'm away I can take the original battery with me to keep the machine going longer. Plus when the battery eventually reaches the end of its life, it's a simple case of ordering another one up.
Oh well, I just need to ensure I enjoy my removable battery powered Note and its expandable storage
21-04-2012 07:43 PM
When people had a choice of phones to start with batteries did struggle with smart phones, but having a spar battery on hand was a good selling point, my son has a ipod touch and having to wait for it to charge !
as you have said apple did seal there batteries in and made it impossible to change them
One reason I got my son the Note was the removable battery he was looking at the one X
But his experience with his Ipod brought it home
it was him that got me into checking this all out mainly for him
thank god I made the right one, don't get me wrong the HTC phones are nice but I can see then running in to problems
I no the manager at a Carphone warehouse and he has told me, one of the questions is were does the battery go,
Some people are stuck in there ways and are so used to being able to change a battery, and there not taking to the not being able to remove the battery idea
He quoted sales of the Note 48Hrs from launch sold out
HTC one X well he never sold out the HTC one V he has sent back,
He says he has sold more sensation xe same spec as the S
On a teenager front The new HTC phones have not got them excited, the X did on spec but the Note has blown them away.
When asked why the HTC has not sparked them they said there coping Apple with no sd slot and non replaceable battery
23-04-2012 09:49 AM
Lack of sd card is one thing. I don't know how many people actually buy bigger cards. You could argue that 32GB is a reasonable amount. From the marketing aspect it is possible that have non-upgradable storage might encourage some people to buy a higher spec model.
Non-removable batteries are simply bad! I have replaced many removable ones over the years because they started to weaken. I don't expect the battery to last as long as the phone and I expect to pass my phone on. As a result, I just won't buy an expensive device with non-user replaceable batteries, if there is an alternative.
23-04-2012 06:42 PM
Well the goof thing with a external card is no need to wipe it or format it so you can back every thing up, plus with HD videio that can fill one up very fast
Now its faster taking out the card and poping it direct in to the pc now even apple have now brought out a adapter for there ipad to read them
Any How i was right see
24-04-2012 09:00 AM
Thin is fine until you start limiting your use of a device to preserve battery. Motorola seem to have no problem using large batteries and keeping phones fairly thing (Razer Maxx). Style over substance!!
24-04-2012 09:10 AM
I Have a HTC Desire HD, Iphone 4s and Nokia Lumia800,
never had a problem with battery on the HTC, OK it only last about 6 to 9 hours but I'm use to it as this is my everyday phone, always run the battery down to nill before charging, and its always worked fine!
the iPhone and the Nokia are also good both with non-removable Battery and they again seem great, The Iphone has fantastic battery and I use it mainly to listen to music, play games and surf the web, all battery wasters, and never had a problem with it
I took the Nokia Airsofting (paint ball with plastic BBs!) to use the camera as it was quicker than my HTC and the shutter speed is faster, plus it saves my Nikon getting smashed to bits, and the batter lasted form 9am to about 5pm with a full day of photo snapping,
All in all, based on the phones battery performances I have I think my next phone will be the HTC One X or new gen Iphone,... But then I am a little Biased to HTC..
PS Also have a BB 8520......Shocking..Just shocking.....
25-04-2012 11:12 AM
Glad you are happy with your batteries. However, the point, I think, is that inevitably Li-on batteries will degrade. There are many factors that affect the rate of degradation such as:
- Operating temperature (not often a big problem in the UK!)
- How many discharge/charge cycles
- How long spent at high charge levels
- If the battery is frequently "topped up"
Top-up charging, where a battery is say at 80% charge and given a quick boost to help it survive the day, is actually quite damaging to the life expectancy of the cell because a) you have more charge cycles and b) your battery spends more of its time at high charge levels. It is much better to allow the battery to deplete to a low level of charge and then recharge. I have noticed a difference between two identical phone batteries (same make, model and supplier) where one is 8 months older than the other. I have not bothered to quantify the difference but I could tell which battery is which simply by using them. I say could because I donated one battery to my son because his original HTC battery had become quite poor at retaining charge (a top-up charger).
A good example of how damaging temperature and high charge levels are, can be seen in laptops that are normally used attached to the mains. I have seen many such machines whose batteries become useless and the owner wonders why. In fact, where I used to work, we had lots of laptops in labs. The ones which were permanently used on mains, we actually removed the batteries completely.
Battery technology has improved, but it has yet to make the significant breakthrough which would allow me to be confident to rely on a single sealed unit. The only advantage of sealed units is to the manufacturer, not the user.