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Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)
Tom
Posts: 8,790
Registered: ‎30-11-2007

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Hello,

We believe we're the UK's best network, a belief supported by several independent parties in recent months:

YouGov

Pocket-Lint

Mobile Industry Awards 2010

Building on this, we want to become the home of the smartphone, and we'd like your help.

Tell us what you think we should do to make this happen, all suggestions are welcome no matter how big or small, or how everyday or far out they are. Also feel free to build on others' suggestions if you like their ideas but want to add to them.

I'm really looking forward to seeing your responses!

Thanks,

Tom

eForum Team
Message 1 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Regular Poster
Hands0n
Posts: 170
Registered: ‎15-03-2008

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Ooooh, how very tempting How could I possibly resist

Actually, I do think that the answer to your question is amazingly easy and it is one that has got you in the news a lot lately (along with your fellows of the GSMA).

If you are serious about wanting to "become the home of the smartphone" then you have plain and simply got to get into your heads that Mobile Data is not a premium product in its own right to be drip-fed at great cost to the punter but a commodity to be exploited, to leverage everything that a true smartphone is capable of doing. What is a smartphone, after all, without mobile data connectivity? It is nothing more than a disconnected computer. And there is nothing particularly smart about that.

Basically, Vodafone will not become a major smartphone "home" for as long as there are tight data caps and punitive out-of-bundle costs. These introduce prohibition to the smartphone user community, terrified of using their devices for too much in case the inevitable monster bill arrives at the end of the month.

Imagine, instead, a brave new world headed and led by Vodafone. In this world there would be all manner of content being moved about the airwaves. Some of it would be freely available, the Internet is after all founded upon altruistic concepts. That does not mean that it cannot cause wealth to be earned, but that should not be at the cost of the founding concepts.

And so there we have it. The answer itself is simple, but it is going to take a major shift in Vodafone's mindset to make this happen. At first there will appear to be nothing in it for the corporation. But as content providers start to realise that they can actually use Mobile Data to sell their wares then Vodafone will have a vehicle upon which to gain revenue.

We have seen this happen with the Internet itself. It has become a global enabler at ridiculously low cost to the consumer, yet huge profits are made by the networks and content owners themselves.

The answer, Vodafone, is staring you right in the face. Do you have the acumen to do it? Or will you let another operator do this instead? There are one or two others who are beginning to make the right moves. In five years time you may wonder how you missed this golden opportunity. Or not :)
Message 2 of 97 (8,854 Views)
First Poster
markrfletcher
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-07-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

I really have to echo @Hands0n's comment - the future will be data, and the more restrictive carriers are with it, the less people will want to pay money, and instead move to the best deal. As a student for the past 3 years, I've never been able to afford a contract, and have been using Vodafone PAYG, with what I admit is the brilliant "contract-lite" voice and text packs; great value for someone in my situation. In the last year however, I've found myself using my iPod Touch as almost a replacement for my phone, a somewhat ancient in mobile terms Samsung G600. Facebook, Twitter and email are now my main methods of communication, with Skype handling the majority of my calls.

I'm graduating this month, and hopefully when I have steady employment, I'll be able to afford a contract. With the research I've been doing the last month, Vodafone is severely lacking in choice for my specific needs; not that it is simply Vodafone which is not offering the right solution, but all UK operators are still dragging behind.

To answer the question "What would make Vodafone the home of Smartphones?", I'll reply with my ideal package. A genuinely unlimited data connection, with no minutes or texts. I'd pay the going rate per text/minute, if I needed them, but the fact is that I don't need them! Offering unlimited texts has no impact (for me, at least) when FB/Twitter/Email doesn't cost anything either.

Obviously, not everybody is in my position, but once again repeating the previous comment, data is the future. I don't work in the industry, but I get the feeling that operators don't want to become simple data pipes, with no other services to offer. Yet all the carriers offer nearly exactly the same deals for smartphones, and are basically indistinguishable from each other. At the moment, I'm considering just a Mifi Dongle; an iPod Touch with a data connection would be perfect!
Message 3 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Champion V
SynthFG
Posts: 2,258
Registered: ‎24-11-2009

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Flexibility in price plans
Rather than a set number of mins texts and data per month

Give me A set amount of Credit and a price list
every time I use one of the following, deduct the appropriate amount of credits from my pot

Voice Calls
Texts
Video Calls
Data (Sold in blocks of 500Mb)
MMS Messages

Allow me to carry a certain amount of credit over into the next month,
If I go over my credit limit in any month then I am charged an extra £5 for an appropriate amount of extra credit (which will roll if not used)


In other words give me a flexible plan that allows me to use my smartphone in a way that suits me



Secondly
Learn the difference between Themes, Apps and Firmware,
Do not spend months testing and interfering with every update for the firmware of your provided handsets, you have shown with apple that you can accept this so do the same with the other manufacturers

Have a firmware statement something like the following,

Vodafone will provide there handsets with a vodafone theme/skin set as the default to maintain a consistent look across our range, Users will be able to revert to any of the standard handset themes or install new ones, users will be able to delete the voda theme if they so choose

Vodafone may choose to provide phones pre-installed with vodafone approved apps we feel will be of interest, either full or trial, Users will be able to un install these if they so choose

Vodafone will never interfere with the manufacturer provided firmware of a phone,
should an manufacturer provide a firmware update for a model provided by vodafone, voda reserves the right to test the update before releasing it to our handsets.
Vodafone will endeavour to approve any new firmware update within a week of manufacturer release,
Voda will only reject an update if it is found to have a serious negative impact on phone or network performance and will work with the manufacturer to resolve the issue as quickly as possible
Vodafone will endevour to be completely transparent wrt firmware and will make regular announcements on the forums regarding the process of testing of any new update

Note I do not work for voda, My advice comes from experience and my opinions are my own
Message 4 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)
Tom
Posts: 8,790
Registered: ‎30-11-2007

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Thanks for the feedback so far guys, it's really interesting! Spread the word about this thread, surely there are more people who'd like the opportunity to have their say?

Tom

eForum Team
Message 5 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Established Poster
olliewoods
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎17-12-2009

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Yeah, I really hate the branding on my Blackberry. The startup screen and the (removable) wallpaper are fine, but now when I try to use the Google search bar on the browser page I get a Vodafone 360 error!

Also, as Synth_FG said, some flexibility would be nice. I wanted unlimited texts and internet and got that, but am having to pay £5-10 more than I'd like to because the shop would've charged me loads for the phone on the next step down, so I have way more minutes than I actually use. Surely on a 24-month contract you're getting enough profit from me anyway?! Something like a certain network's flexi-time would be really good since people use their phones for different things.
Ollie Woods
Blackberry Storm v1 user/prisoner no more!
Now with added iPhone 3GS 16GB
Message 6 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Elite II
AnnS
Posts: 9,912
Registered: ‎25-03-2008

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

As a long standing eForum member, I couldnt resist this any longer.

I would like to be offered a choice of a handset with or without Vodafone branding. Vodafone are always behind with their firmware updates for branded handsets when updates have been available for generic handsets for some time.

There is no point having a smartphone which does not have up to date firmware with fast access to all Vodafone services.

Vodafone have bt Openzone for iphone customers, how about Vodafone having their own WiFi connection and being able to provide their customers with WiFi in every major town. This would be exclusive for Vodafone customers, who would then have fast and reliable internet on their smartphones without the need to rely on a 3G connection.
Ann

Message 7 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Regular Poster
Yolina
Posts: 384
Registered: ‎03-02-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?




To answer the question "What would make Vodafone the home of Smartphones?", I'll reply with my ideal package. A genuinely unlimited data connection, with no minutes or texts. I'd pay the going rate per text/minute, if I needed them, but the fact is that I don't need them! Offering unlimited texts has no impact (for me, at least) when FB/Twitter/Email doesn't cost anything either.




Well it seems that 3 is nearly the answer for you then! They have a rolling one month sim-only plan with 1GB data for £5... no minutes or texts.


Flexibility is key - either the way Synth_GF described or an option to "build your own plan" where we can separately pick how many minutes/texts/data we want and we're just given a price for the options chosen rather than the current system of ending up paying for things that get wasted (in my case it's texts - there's no way I can go through 3000 in a month)
Message 8 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Community Manager (Retired)
Community Manager (Retired)
Tom
Posts: 8,790
Registered: ‎30-11-2007

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Brilliant, thanks everyone, keep it coming!

Tom

eForum Team
Message 9 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Regular Poster
Yolina
Posts: 384
Registered: ‎03-02-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

You also must give people a simple, easy to use way of checking data usage which needs to be as near real-time as possible (I'd say up to 24h behind is acceptable, 72h is not...) This is absolutely essential.
Message 10 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Champion V
SynthFG
Posts: 2,258
Registered: ‎24-11-2009

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Thinking about this some more I think voda have a problem, more so than some of the other networks,
Part of the problem is attitude and part of it is cost

We already see Voda mods counciling people to moderate there data usage to fit in with voda's caps, not to mention the damage imposing those cap's and the shoddy way it was handled has done to voda's image, and leaves a strong suggestion that Voda's network is creaking under the strain
we see voda blocking certain tv streaming sites during this years world cup,

Yet the streaming thing is an indication of where the future is heading

More and more people want to live in the cloud, so to speek, pulling content both live and pre-recorded off the web
Spottify, TVCatchup, YouTube, iPlayer all are pioneers in this market

We are rapidly heading for a future where the mobile is a both a gateway to a virtual anywhere presence and an access point to both web content and the contents of the owners own pc

A future where you take a photo/video on the phone and it is instantly geotagged, uploaded to facebook and saved to your home pc
where if you want to listen to music rather than being limited to what is on the phone, you can access your spottify account, itunes stores, the music you have stored on your pc or countless others
Where if you can watch TV streamed from the web, video on demand, or again access your pc at home for video content there,

Chat, video calling, email, and unfortunatly virtual prescence advertising,

But all of this takes data, masses of it, 1Gb is not going to be enough, nowhere near,
dor this revolution to take place the network has to be up to it,

Voda need to have not only the widest reach for the high speed elements of there network, but also the largest capacity, largest allowances and the first to roll out new technology

Note I do not work for voda, My advice comes from experience and my opinions are my own
Message 11 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Peer I
weatherman478
Posts: 320
Registered: ‎26-02-2008

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

To be honest I cannot see Vodafone as the home of the smartphone. Some other networks I would say are the home of the smartphone but not Vodafone. Vodafone needs to have fully multimedia friendly price plans eg MMS/Video calling included ,larger data bundles. I am not saying unlimited but the option to pay for larger bundles such as 1GB then 5GB or even 10GB. You do it for you mobile broadband so why not for the phones. No Vodafone branding on phones. It is very frustrating to see a software update come out and then wait months for Vodafone to launch their own version.
Vodafone needs to start improving their 3G coverage which is very poor in a lot of areas.
Finally as the future seems to be data and streaming ect. Vodafone needs to unblock their data connections. Until this happens Vodafone will not be the home of the smartphone.
Message 12 of 97 (8,854 Views)
uno
Established Poster
uno
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎22-02-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

I feel like many other users for Vodafone top really be the home of smartphones they need to have a good data allowance and not the silly 500mb or even 1GB for some users. I have upgraded recently to a few android phones and both myself and my other users are using data more with uploading files while out and about to Google Docs,Picasa,Flickr as well sending lots more emails with pictures to get opinions and views on matters all obviously eating into data allowances. I would say since getting my HTC Desire my data use has increased at least 100% as I am now as I say backing everything up into the cloud and i hear soon the next big thing for smartphones will be connecting into home PCs and work units via VPN also 2011 is billed to be the year cloud computing explodes all a strain on the network and customers allowances.

I see that in your retail store that you have already started displaying adverts saying they are the home of Android phones with the biggest choice on any UK network which is true and good but please allow all these users a my account app like Iphone users have so they can keep an eye on their usage especially as android handsets are known to use quite a bit of background data even more so than the I phones

Message 13 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Scout I
Glyn
Posts: 65
Registered: ‎29-06-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Vodafone has a long long way to go,
Vodafone branding on phones. It is very frustrating to see a software update come out and then wait months for Vodafone to launch their own version.
I have a HTC legend and still waiting for the radio update that HTC released on June 2nd and all you get from Vodafone is "we no nothing!!!! "
Vodafone needs to start improving their 3G coverage which is very poor in a lot of areas.
Lets hop some one pull's there finger out at Vodafone and send us the updates and supports the smartphone as it was intended to be !!
Message 14 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Helper IV
dcarmi
Posts: 1,427
Registered: ‎01-10-2008

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Firmware
I really have no problem with Vodafone branding their phones. I do have a (well documented) problem with firmware modification. Your release timescales are poor and you introduce errors into the process. Basically resellers can feel free to add applications and themes but must not be allowed to alter the OS, on any device.

They certainly should not restrict access to OS patches, which is effectively what you do.

Service
If you take your poor handling of firmware out of the equation... I have no real issues. I think this forum is generally excellent, though you can be a little quick to lock topics. Probably a sign of over management.

Call and data quality
I usually get a signal when I want one and usually get an internet connection when I need one. No complaints here.

Billing
Your data allowance is weak. You put people in the position they were with call years ago. "Mustn't use the mobile, it is too expensive!". Selling data in chunks of 500MB, I suppose is fine but I would add a more graduated surcharge for overuse. I'd charge by the current rate per 100MB. Being charged 1 or 2 quid a month extra if you slip over the limit is tolerable. Adding an extra fiver a chunk is steep and causes users to not use the device to best effect.

I don't think I am particularly thick but I find your (and other) billing systems confusing. It needs simplifying.

PAYG is generally fine. I'd like to see some encouragement for data use in this sector. 25MB/day could be a bit higher.

Other Services
I do not make much use of any other Vodafone Services and I gues the question you would ask is why?

  • MobileTV. Personally, I don't see the point. I cannot imagine using it. I barely use iPlayer on my phone.
  • Music Downloads. iTunes, Amazon etc etc. You have your work cut out. I don't tend to use my phone as an mp3 player. I have a dedicated device for that (2 actually). I generally prefer to by CD Albums.
  • SatNav. I have a Nokia and hence free SatNav which is adequate for my needs.
  • MobileEmail. I can get emails on my phone, fairly satisfactorily without paying extra
  • VF360. Shucks, I am too old! I have my facebook app and that does me.
Future Services
I am afraid to say that the future of the mobile involves data, data and more data. This means video, music(you I know what I said above), cloud-based services, location-based services and context-based services. I have been with VF for over 10 years and I am still concerned about tying myself into Vodafone cloud services (360, storage etc).

The problem Vodafone (and other MNO) have is that, I don't think you have the infrastructure to cope. If you did then you would not have gone through all the grief of data caps. This leaves the market open to innovation and this after all is how Vodafone started in the first place.

Will MNOs press ahead with 4G, rapidly? Will there be a gap between the demand for data and its current provision and cost? If you think about it and I am sure you have, if you have enough cheap data available, then why do you specifically need cell-telephony?

Bandwith segmentation. No!!!

Short answer
To be the home of smartphones, Vodafone needs to supply lots of cheap data (before someone else does).

That said. Good question from the OP.
Message 15 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Peer I
yellow160
Posts: 227
Registered: ‎01-06-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

I've been mulling over what to say on here for a few days since Tom pointed me at the thread.

Basically there's a bit of a hoo-ha going on on the Nexus One forum because, fundamentally, many of us feel we were missold an unbranded phone which is, to all intents and purposes, a locked down branded phone - the Nexus One.

The post above covers some of my thinking - which is basically that Vodafone need to stop thinking of themselves as the OWNERS of our mobile connected devices. They need to focus on building their business on providing data access and value added services on top of the platforms that WE CHOOSE to buy.

Today another poster posted something which closely matches what I wanted to say - I've tidied it up a bit:

In answer to the question - what's so important about the Android update? Were you unhappy with the phone before the update was announced?


Don't take this personally, but that's what I consider the old way of thinking. At least for my part I think with Android we've finally reached a state where people don't just buy a phone and if it works the world is fine. People are deciding which software platform they want to use, i.e. which os, look&feel, update policy and application base they like to use. Then they choose a phone that enables them to use that platform.

Some choose the HTC Desire because they like SenseUI. Others choose the Nexus One because they are less interested in the UI and more interested in being close the operating system vendor.

This is why it's so annoying that Vodafone still lives in the old world, where a firmware update was a thing that happend in rare cases and customers were happy if their problems were eventually solved. Never before has a firmware update meant a factor 2 in overall application speed or unlocked a big part of the internet (flash support).

The first time I realized that my Nexus was "special" was when I tried to install an app that could not be found by my phone in the market. The person who recommended it had a US vanilla Nexus One, my colleague at work had a Desire and both could see and install the app. However my Vodafone device id was not registered for this app with Google. This is also a reason why I want an offcial build, not a special branch where someone has to trigger things manually so that we are allowed to do them too.

So at least for me it doesn't really matter if I can use my mobile to make calls. It matters if I can use the features the platform has to offer. That's what I bought it for and that's what I expect. Currently it does not work because the platform already made a step forward while I'm stuck.


In order for Vodafone to become the home of the smart phone they need to recognise that their customers are becoming more sophisticated and therefore require a greater level of knowledge in their sales and support organisations.

They also need to come to terms with the fact that much of what they currently classify as "mistakes" are in fact key bits of information that people use to make their purchasing decisions. When they are wrong then they are potentially mis-selling.

I'm not a fan of the Apple evil empire but the business model where the phone hardware and software are the responsibility of the phone vendor seems the right one. Having a single version of the operating system that works out of the box on all networks is demonstrably possible and should become the standard for all phones.

In the case of Android - if Vodafone are still standing by their claims that Android needs to be tested and modified to work on the Vodafone network then Vodafone should be using its market position to force Google to correct the issues in the core Android OS rather than messing about with a special version. This is what is best for the customer as it ensures that in the unlikely event of a serious core security issue being found then Vodafone's customers will get the fix as soon as Google release it.
Message 16 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Established Poster
Tracker6
Posts: 39
Registered: ‎01-07-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Yes, let this tread fillup with the Google Nexus One issues cause by Vodafone!

What about Vodafone THE smartphone home!
The ruin the freedom of there users
They sold us a not branded phone, but they lei. :(

Would I wait for the branded Froyo version of Vodafone?
I start thinking rooting will be the best thing to do.

Miss Sold by Vodafone let down by Google



http://forum.vodafon...o/page__st__840
Message 17 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Peer I
yellow160
Posts: 227
Registered: ‎01-06-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?


Yes, let this tread fillup with the Google Nexus One issues cause by Vodafone!


Preferably not : there's already a thread for that.
Message 18 of 97 (8,854 Views)
First Poster
chester31
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎15-07-2010

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?

Let me create the contract that suits me.

For example lets say theres a £500 phone I want

You could offer 12/18/24 months

£3 for 100 minutes
£3 for 100 texts
£5 for 500mb of data.

So I could go for 500 minutes 100 text 1500mb of data or whatever combination I wanted.

Then the cost of the phone could be worked out based on what I've chosen as a contract.
Message 19 of 97 (8,854 Views)
Helper IV
dcarmi
Posts: 1,427
Registered: ‎01-10-2008

What would make Vodafone the home of smartphones?


Let me create the contract that suits me.

For example lets say theres a £500 phone I want

You could offer 12/18/24 months

£3 for 100 minutes
£3 for 100 texts
£5 for 500mb of data.

So I could go for 500 minutes 100 text 1500mb of data or whatever combination I wanted.

Then the cost of the phone could be worked out based on what I've chosen as a contract.


Personally, I'd rather Vodafone and the other companies were not allowed to include phones in contracts. Typically British Gas don't give you a cooker when you contract to them, so why should Vodafone supply you with a phone. However, I suspect the manufacturers of devices would not be happy if phones were not part of a contract (people don't usually change cookers every 18 months).

The notion of chunks of service being able to be bought on demand is interesting. Effectively they do that with data and as I argued above the chunks should be made smaller (say 100MB rather than 500MB).

I agree that flexibility and transparency is key. I suspect most people do not know just how much the handset element of their contract is, for example. I'd like to see the cost of the handset explicit in the 12/18/24 month contract and then choose the level of service I need (and change it whenever I want/need).

However, I am not sure this addresses the original question, nor would it necessarily be of benefit to Vodafone.
Message 20 of 97 (8,854 Views)