HTC

[Mr_H]

I am in the same boat as Mister_C, put your hand/fingers in the wrong place on a Desire S & bye bye wifi. As I've said previously in this thread, I believe the problem is a combination of both hardware and software issues. If Gingerbread held onto the weaker wifi signals like Froyo does, the disconnects would happen less and therefore be a lot less of a problem 

To respond to some of the questions in the email: This is completely independent of router, isp, location etc, and 100% reproducible on any wireless network I've been attached to 

Personally I don't use static IP & unlike some folks here, I find that getting an IP by DHCP on wifi on my DS is not a problem, it just takes a few seconds. If I get disconnected from a wireless network, I grumble, modify my grip, wait to or force a reconnect, & am then generally "fine", if less comfortable & and slightly hampered by having to go portrait or one handed. For me it's an annoyance that spoils the experience of an otherwise outstanding device  

To demonstrate, yesterday evening I took a series of photos & screen shots on both of my two (completely stock) phones from Vodafone; a Gingerbread Desire S and a Froyo Desire. Unfortunately I don't have them all with me at the moment, so I'll have to upload them later. 

For the test I ran last night I was stationary sat at my desk at home which is a fair way from the router. I'd also like to refer you to another test comparison of I did back in May where I took three readings with Wifi Analyzer on these same two phones at four different distances from a wifi router in our work offices. In case you missed that, here are the numbers again

I think the images actually demonstrate the problem more clearly, so I'll make sure I upload them as soon as I can 

[Mr_H]

OK so here are the photos & screen shots, the phones are the ones from my signature:

HTC Desire (A8181) running Froyo 2.2 (2.33.161.2)

HTC Desire S (S510e) running Gingerbread 2.3.3 (1.32.161.2)

Because I was taking a photo with one phone in one hand and holding the other phone in the other hand, the phone in the photo is not landscape as it was too difficult to do so without totally blurry pics (instead they're just quite blurry!). Also I took all the photos in one sitting, and then took all the screenshots via the Android debugging tool in another sitting. The observant will notice the time difference and that the old Desire hasn't got its time set or even a sim in it, this because it's not being used at the moment (such a waste, anyone in the market for an original Desire? ). The very observant will notice I hold the DS in my left hand (I'm a leftie) and the Desire in my right, don't ask me why, it makes no difference to the results, trust me! I didn't even notice I'd done that until afterwards

So to begin with, here is the old Froyo Desire held normally running Wifi Analyzer, as you can see it has picked up a handful of wireless networks:

   

And this is the Desire S, held in the same friendly way. Note the DS fails to pick up some weaker networks that the Desire did pick up

  

There's nothing really different going on here, both phones are in the same place in the same conditions. I wasn't cherry picking shots, this is all fairly representative. I think this nicely highlights the difference in wifi performance between the two phones

Now watch what happens if I cover the top rear of the phones, the worst case equivalent to holding the phone in landscape. First up the good old Desire again

  

You can see the old Desire is actually affected and has dropped a couple of the weakest networks, but it's still registering more than the DS in the best case. Showing a couple at less than -90bDm, which the DS would have considered too weak & dropped

Now for the DS with its top rear covered

 

Surprise surprise, they've all gone! Hello 3G!

To demonstrate how easy it is to kill the wifi on a DS, here I do so with just two fingers:

   

I actually managed to get it to drop the wifi about 50% of the time when I held it in this way, pretty poor 

Anyway, I hope this helps! Good luck with the problem

[Dave]

Hi guys,

Thanks for responding to the emails and the call for more information!

I think we may actually be getting two issues mixed up here, as the other guys are reporting location and router specifics to their issue.  There has been mention elsewhere of a "grip of death" but this has been investigated by HTC who state that all handsets are different in terms of grip and reception.

If anyone else is finding complete loss of their home Wi-Fi when all else succeeds, please let us know and we'll get your details passed on!

Dave

eForum Team                                                                                                               

[Mr_H]

Hi Dave,

I don't have any issues connecting to and/or obtaining IP from any specific routers on my phone. Connecting is not the problem for me, being disconnected is, and that was the original subject of this thread

I would like to further enforce the point I was trying to make re the death grip problem. It is not a purely hardware problem, it has been made worse by a software change in the Gingerbread update. Phones running Froyo will hold onto weaker wifi signals (down to at least -95dBm), where as Gingerbread only holds them -88dBm, which is a stronger. If the Desire S would hold onto weaker signals like the Desire does, the disconnects would be a lot less of a problem

Can we please have this software change raised as an issue to HTC please? The phone drops relatively strong wifi signals unnecessarily

Many thanks

[Dave]

Hi Mr_H,

Apologies for the slight confusion - most posts following your initial one quickly moved more to this router/location specific one, so the initial point of yours was lost.

With it getting worse under Gingerbread, this is something we can raise with enough similar cases. With this thread being much more of a free-for-all of various issues, I think we need to look to tidy this up.

So far we have:

 - HTCs on Gingerbread failing to pick up home signal (possible link to Thompson Speedtouch routers)

 - HTC dropping WiFi connections generally, worse with Gingerbread

 - HTC Sensation "Grip of death" - already investigated by HTC.

Can I ask people to state specifically which handset model, firmware version and issue they are having on posts from hereon out so we can quickly see when we have enough for any given issue to get it raised for investigation? We need multiple cases for each issue we raise, and we cannot guarantee that raising these will lead to a resolution, but the more information and the clearer the issue the better.

Dave

eForum Team

[Mr_H]

Hi Dave,

No problem & thank you

To answer your questions in your email:

Are the disconnections Wi-Fi only, or are other signals affected?

The issue only effects wifi, voice & 3G reception are very good. When the wifi starts to get weak for whatever reason (e.g. you're too far from the router, you have thick walls in your house, you hold the phone in "death grip"), the wifi network is dropped sooner on Gingerbread than on Froyo

(I'm comparing the Desire S, S510e, running Android 2.3.3 Gingerbread, software number 1.32.161.2 to the Desire, A8181, running Android 2.2 Froyo, software number 2.33.161.2)

I can only assume this is a power saving effort from HTC so the phone doesn't waste battery hunting for "weak" signals. But they seem to have gone too far, wifi signals of that strength are perfectly usable, and it causes more problems than it solves with all these death grip complaints

Do any specific routers work worse? For example, Thompson Speedtouch has been flagged up previously on the thread as being bad for Wi-Fi .

Not that I've noticed, it is independent of router for me. This problem is caused by the Gingerbread roms being deliberately configured to drop the wifi signals at -88dBm, instead of -98dBm as they were on Froyo

Can you confirm your name and Vodafone number for reference so we can talk should we need to

Not on the forum, have done so via email

I'm more than happy to talk to your tech team, and I promise not to bite!

I am a little concerned that this change will be put on the Gingerbread rom for the original Desire, which according to HTC is imminent: http://www.facebook.com/htcuk/posts/232270456792349

This could negatively affect its wifi performance. As the original Desire has generally good wifi reception, it might get away with this change more than the Desire S & Sensation, but personally I'd not risk it!

Again, I hope what I've said helps,

All the best

[Dave]

Hi Mr_H,

As I mentioned in the email, this has logged for you.

The more who report this same issue, the more likely we are to be able to pinpoint the issue, so please get posting anyone else who is affected!

Dave

eForum team

[Johnny_Royale]

I'm an HTD Desire HD user with the same issue. I upgraded to 2.3.3 a few weeks ago and now can only get Wifi in my living room where the router is. Even then it's a pretty pathetic signal and I need to point the device at the router.

Before I got the "upgrade" I could happily sit and look at You Tube or BBC iPlayer in bed, now I can barely do it stood next to the router!

Not very convenient and I'm struggling to see why I should be paying the same amount of money monthly for a machine that now works less well than it did previously.

It's an Atheros AR925 router from Virgin. Never had any problems before. It's still getting an extremely strong signal on my laptop.

Vodafone - you have my email address from me registering here, I am interested in hearing what you're going to be doing about this, my contract is with you, I expect this to be sorted.

[Mr_H]

Sounds pretty bad Johnny I know how frustrating it can be, I was sat out in a nice sunny garden trying to use the phone this weekend & it was barely able to maintain a wifi conection

Under Froyo the wifi signal would have been considered fine, but now on Gingerbread it's deemed too weak to use. When I did get a connection, the data rate was close to 50Mbps, so it was a good signal. I just wish HTC would just put it back to how it was

[Johnny_Royale]

Well, the Mrs is a bit happier I suppose, my IRL communication now involves more than just grunts from behind my phone....

I'm thinking one solution is to do a factory reset on the handset, that should put the 2.2 version of the software back if I'm not mistaken? (Please tell me if that's right or not!!)

It'd be a pain though, I'd have to make a note of the apps I have, set it up again how I have it now and find most convenient. That would take hours.

Perhaps Vodafone could let us know what kind of pressure they're bringing to bear on HTC and Google to get this sorted? Or, failing that giving us greater (unlimited?) usage until it's resolved. There's little point in having this smartphone if it's just going to get dumber.

I've warned all my HTC owning friends not to do this upgrade.

I'm sat about 10ft from the router, and Wifi Analyzer gives me a reading of 84.

[Mr_H]

Lol Johnny!

Re Factory Resetting back to Froyo from GB - I'm not sure if it would do that with the DHD because it was originally shipped on Froyo, I think the stock image gets overwritten as part of the upgrade, but I'm far from certain. Someone like Eddy, Neo or Vamp might know. My Desire S has always had Gingerbread on it, so that wouldn't help me. Personally I wouldn't go though the hassle of factory reset unless I was sure of the answer to that question

I doubt they'll give you unlimited data, but if you ring 191 and complain they might give you some credit for your trouble, and possibly more if you're incuring charges for exceeding the 500Mb limit

Dave, there's another VF customer, NatalieJane, describing the disconnection issue here: http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/HTC-Desire-Series/Problems-since-update/m-p/816865

[EddyOS]

Normally, once you've updated rolling back isn't doable because you can't flash an older HBOOT over a new one. There are methods of downgrading your unit (don't know how to do it with the DHD but I'm sure there's a thread on XDA about it) so you can then flash a FroYo RUU but I don't know how to with a DHD

EDIT: XDA thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905003

[TrevorC]

This thread http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/HTC-Desire-Series/Problems-since-update/td-p/760425 is also discussing this same issue.  I think they need to be merged.

HTC are being complacent, and sadly to date the various network providers including VF have likewise been complacent.  This is a known and admitted fault, but no fast resolution.  Yet HTC are imminently going to release Gingerbread to the original Desire in addition to the DHD.  Will they have fixed it by then or will they be perpetuating this serious fault even further?

[TrevorC]

Hi Dave,

I trust that by now you've realised that it's nothing to do with routers, that switching to static IP addresses does nothing, and realised that this is an acknowledged fault on HTC Gingerbread.  Places where WiFi worked before no longer work or work intermittently - all because HTC switch the WiFi off if the signal falls below 88 decibels,, at that point 3G kick in, supposedly to give a seamless data solution, but in reality for most of us eating up our paltry data allowances.  For those with this fault download a WiFi analyser app and discover where in your house you are now safe to use your HTC WiFi device.  I used to be able to go out in the garden, not so any more.  I used to be ale to use my phone in my dining room, now only true if I point it towards the router in the hall.  Meanwhile I'm sitting here using my WiFi connected laptop with an excellent WiFi connection to my O2 Thomson router - about 78 decibels, so I'm doing OK today, the phone's keeping up with me....

HTC say they're working on this.

[bgs264]

Has anyone tried

Menu -> Settings -> Wireless and Networks -> Wi-Fi Settings -> Menu (button on phone) -> Advanced -> "Best Wi-Fi Performance" ?

It's disabled by default, I went into that screen today (thanks to thesoupdragon for replying to my thread here), turned it on, and set my wi-fi timeout from 15 minutes to "Never" and it has infinitely improved.

Not actually sure what it does, though?

[MattWaring1963]

This explains a lot - just though it was the rubbish Virgin Media 'Super Hub' router, but laptop, Mac, xbox and partners mobile 

all connect fine - not my phone.

Putting 2and2 together the very notable drop in WiFi signal performance can be dated to GB upgrade.

Full signal available only within 5 or so feet, anything beyond 20ft and zero...

I've adjusted the settings, as previous post suggested, and maybe seen minor improvement - but out in my garden, all of 25/30ft away from the router, nothing (previously 2-3 bars of signal strength).

Desire HD

GB - 2.3.3

SN - 2.36.405.8

[TrevorC]

Hi Matt,

I suspect many users have not realised that HTC have done this with 2.3.3 yet.  We spotted it pretty much immediately, and then when our bills came in spotted the extra data usage (and charges) when users were supposedly safely on their home WiFi systems.  I think we all need to report this to HTC using:  http://www.htc.com/uk/CS_Mail.aspx clearly detailing the issue and the urgency with which they need to fix it.

They know about it and have promised a fix, but seem to be dragging their heels.

[MattWaring1963]

Email sent to HTC - I have found their help desk quick in responding (I had an issue with 'Sync' and they came back very quickly) this though is a bigger issue of course.

Lets see hwat happens...

[Mr_H]

I tried the best wifi performance option, and it made no difference for my phone, glad it has helped others though 

It looks like this might be fixed in the firmware released for the DS today: http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/HTC-Desire-Series/Desire-S-Firmware-Update-1-47-161-2/td-p/819191, top stuff!

As I said in the other thread I'll test real performance tomorrow and then report back to the community

Cheers

[MattWaring1963]

Just so you know - the response I received from HTC -

"This is due to a change Google has made to the driver of the wireless card in the phone. The threshold for when a Wi-Fi signal is usable has been changed so that the phone will switch to your mobile data connection earlier than before. We have notified Google that the customers do no like this change and hope for this to be reverted to its original setting."

Is this right VodaFone?

Thank you.

Matt

(Desire HD)