HTC

[Mr_H]

Hello all 

I have been browsing various forums on the subject of poor wifi performance on the Desire S, and came across this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1024399

Basically saying the problem was a software one, and Incredible S users running the Desire S gingerbread rom were experiencing it too (fortunately it looks like there is a solution too, but HTC need to implement it). Then I remembered VF had just pushed out the gingerbread update for the VF Desire HDs ahead of the stock DHDs, so I thought I'd take a look... guess what I found when looking on our happy little forum: http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/HTC-Devices/DHD-2-3-Update/td-p/729035 Folks complaining that the update had knackered their wifi too

The bug seems to be present in both the Desire S & HD now, not good! 

Vodafone can you please notify HTC before they update more devices. I'd hate to see the whole Desire family & Incredible affected! 

Oh & a fix would be nice too!

Cheers

[Vampfy]

Oh god, its the iphone left hand issue all over again!

[Mr_H]

I forgot to include a link to the original thread on the Desire S wifi problem. I thought it might be useful for reference, so here it is: http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/HTC-Desire-and-Desire-S/HTC-Desire-S-WiFi/td-p/730011

[HenryHonda]

OK, update...

I've got it working at last with my home wireless modem/router - but only by mannually assigning a fixed IP address, sub mask, gateway, primary DNS etc.  Obviously no good away from home!!

I'll run it that way for a few hours, then try to get it working with dynamically assigned addresses.

I'll update you after I've tried that.

(maybe Gingerbread trashed the dynamic DNS assignment algoritms?)

[HenryHonda]

OK, erased device from my wi-fi modem/router device list, switched phone back to dynamically assigned IP address...

Wi-fi modem/router sees it, and connection is made (I manually input WEP key) - but no web browsing functionality "Page unobtainable".

Revert back to manually assigned IP address etc - works just fine...

Must be auto DNS protocol borked - as all other devices in house (including iPhone) working just fine.

Hope this helps...

[Vampfy]

I'm both concerned and confused. You're blaming GB, but I'm running a GB Sense Rom on my regular Desire and I have no issues.. What problem are you facing? Is it signal DROPPING when you use the phone in landscape (as your XDA link suggests) or are you having problems connecting whatsoever? Also, the IP assignment, could be an issue with your router (as in, you may have specified that your Desire S can only use **this** IP?)

[HenryHonda]

Vampfy, I assume, when you talk about IP address assignment, that you're not referring to the O/P?

If you read my posts, you'll clearly see that I have configured/reconfigured my wireless modem/router and my phone several times to either work with dynamically assigned IP address or manually assigned IP address - both phone and router changed together.

Unless I've missed something, GB appears to cause problems when you select automatically assigned IP addresses on the phone.

I reiterate, wi-fi was working just fine until I installed GB - I changed nothing.

[EddyOS]

I've had no issues with WiFi using a custom 2.3 Sense-based ROM for the record

[Mr_H]

I'm a little confused as to what's going on with Henry's wifi too to be honest. I've had no reason to reset any routers or play with DHCP/static IP settings. My problem has been as described in the xda thread, and replicated on various different networks

Henry you could try briefly turning the security off on your router's wifi & trying to connect. I have seen some Windows XP laptops that have just added a new wireless network, appear to connect & then sit there trying to obtain an IP ages & it has turned out they've had the wrong key typed in. Possibly a quirk of some specific routers or XP, I'll be surprised if it's the problem because you've probably typed the key a ton of times, but hey, it's worth ruling the security out the equation

Also for when you turn the security back on, I believe WPA (ideally WPA2) is generally stronger security than WEP. Though WPA(2) is not as widely support on older devices

@Eddy / @Vamp

Re running GB roms on the original Desire; I recall seeing someone comment (in the xda thread?) that the wifi reception is generally better according to wifi analyser on the original Desire compared to the S. Possibly making the original less suceptable to the problem.

I've got both devices available, so I'll download the app, test it tomorrow & post the results

[Dave]

Hi guys,

Don't worry, this situation has been flagged up and any information we get from yourselves, such as HenryHonda's investigations, is being fed back so we can help get things sorted as quickly as possible for everyone.

Dave

eForum Team

[Mr_H]

OK so here are the results of my testing, I'll let the numbers speak for themselves for the moment (mainly because I don't have time to go through them in detail now as my lunch hour was spent wandering around the building with two phones & a notepad, getting very odd looks from my colleagues!)

I've taken 3 readings at 3 second intervals for each combination of device, distance & grip

It's a shame I didn't have a Desire running the GB rom to compare against too

[Mr_H]

Thank you Dave, good to know!

[Mr_H]

Ok I've had a bit of time to look at the numbers, but before I get into that, it'd be good to know if missymooinc or henryhonda got to the bottom of their wifi issues?

Having re-read their posts it seems they were having issues connecting at all, rather than a death grip (holding landscape) type problem. Maybe the sky isn't falling, but regardless I am interested in the poor Wifi on the Desire S & the possibility that it's dropping useable connections

I think there are three things working in combination to cause the issue with the Desire S:

1. From the numbers on wifi analyser it's clear the Desire S gets a slightly weaker wifi signal than the Desire
2. Wifi both on phones are affected when death gripped, but again the Desire S is worse off, and more significantly for this case
3. The Desire S on GB drops the signal at a stronger -85dBM than the Desire on Froyo at -95dBm. (the fix on xda developers had the phone holding onto connections down to -110dBm!)

I'm guessing the dropping of "weak" signals on the Desire S is to save battery effort from HTC, to stop the phone having to work to hold onto it

On reflection it would have been good if I'd recorded the connection speed and latency for each of my distances/phone/grip combos, so we could judge if they actually worth hanging onto

By the way, Eddy/Vampfy, is it possible you could confirm at what strength a Desire running GB will drop its connection please? I'm guessing it'll be -85dBm on HTC roms, which is pretty hard to achieve on the original Desire in normal use, but relatively easy with the Desire S in landscape/death gripped

As someone in the xda thread I referenced says, it's just physics that wrapping the phone in something (i.e. your hand) will attenuate the signal. How much & whether this is noticeable to the user depends on how well the phone is physically designed and how well the software handles it. In both these respects the Desire S is worse off in comparison to the Desire, which together result in the very different wifi experience on these phones. If HTC were to address at least the half of the problem that they realistically can, I believe it'll change this from a big problem, to a minor one. Lets hope they do!

[EddyOS]

I find this out how?? All I know is I can be outside with 2 walls between my router (o2 Wireless Box II) and me and still get 2 bars on my WiFi

[Mr_H]

Install Wifi Analyzer: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.farproc.wifi.analyzer

It's a very good app

Open it up, then press the Menu button > View > AP List

It should tell you the signal strength in -dBm of all the networks in range of your phone

Walk away from your wireless network until it disconnects, then walk back towards it just enough for it to come back. Note the signal strength, that's the one I was referring to in my last post

Don't be surprised if you're actually quite a way outside the building, the signals travel really well once there are no walls in the way!

Once you're done with that, you can try to demonstrate a deathgrip: When you have an OK, but not great connection (say 2 bars), open up wifi analyzer & take note of the signal strength for your network and any others you see, then wrap your hand around the top rear of the phone, allow the analyzer to refresh a couple of times & you'll be able to see the various wifi networks get weaker

[Trev]

Hi all

Thanks for the information were getting here.

Anything we are finding useful we do forward through to our device team.

On a second note, I now have a week old Desire S device Android version 2.3.3, software 1.32.161.2.

I've only had this device for a few days, but I am a heavy user, especially WiFi when at home. I had an iPhone 4 before this, and this device is as good, if not slightly better at retaining a signal throughout my household without issue. I've not yet encountered any degrading in my service. Would be interesting to see what others have experienced as these devices become more widespread.

Regards

Trev

eForum Team

[Mr_H]

Hi Trev 

Are you on a wireless N network? The iphone 4 is not so hot on wireless n, it doesn't use the new frequencies for n networks, only the old crowded b/g range, which means you lose a lot of the benefit of n. Also with wireless n in theory you should get a better signal/range, which is good news for the DS that fully supports it.

I kept my test above solely to wireless G to make closer comparison with the original Desire, which doesn't do wireless n at all. I do have access to an n network for testing, but it's in a different part of our offices which has plasterboard partioning, rather than brick wall, so again, not great for comparisons. I will try wifi analyzer + death gripping on the n network in various locations tomorrow, to see how it performs anyway though

I'd just like to add I think the Desire & DS are first rate phones, simply excellent & I'd highly recommend them. Also even taking the wifi into account, for me personally I think the DS is a better phone (extra memory, perfect call quality, great audio playback & improved Sense). I'm pursuing this issue because I like these phones so much & I want them to be the best they can. I was quite disaapointed when I first noticed this issue and then read about it online, and would love to see this issue knocked on the head (or at least improved) with a software update from HTC if possible

... & hey, if HTC can sort it out but don't, I can always go knock on their door & knock them on the head (I'm joking of course)! They have an office in Slough not too far from me! 

[Tomapi]

Please confirm you are investigating this for the Desire S also. Considering the zero response I have received on another thread I started, I'm not sure whether support is included in my contract or not? To reiterate the Wi-Fi connectivity (= ability to maintain connection, ability to connect to discovered Wi-Fi) is abysmal, compared to Magic, irrespective of whether the phone is held or not. It must be a firmware issue, as the phone repeatedly loses all discovered Wi-Fi points before rescanning, connecting, losing them all...

[Wayne]

Hi Tomapi

Thanks for your post here. We are feeding back any information that we deem relevant to this WiFi issue to our devices teams so this can be looked into and resolved.

Thanks

Wayne

eForum Team

[Mr_H]

Unfortunately I haven't had time to test the wireless n network in detail yet, I will try to this coming week. I can confirm I managed to seriously attenuate a good wireless n signal with a death grip though

By resolved, did you mean the software component of the problem? Or if you meant the hardware aspect too (which I guess would only be done by HTC physically revising the wifi antenna in the DS for future manufacturering runs), if we're affected could we potentially have our phones exchanged? 

It'd be really good to know what your device team think of this issue by the way. Also it'd be good to know what that intruigingly named team actually does & basically how they interact with the manufacturer. I'm not expecting super detail or anything commercially sensitive, a bit more transparency would be appreciated 

Cheers