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Rooting, warranty and pre-installed apps

Wossi
6: Helper
6: Helper

I got the One M8 yesterday and so far I'm really liking it. A bit of an upgrade from my Galaxy Nexus.

 

The only major gripe I have is the pre-installed apps that you cannot uninstall. As far as I can see the only way to get rid of them is to root the phone and either use Titanium backup to delete them or put another rom on there.

 

I have no problem with rooting the phone as all my previous phones were rooted, but I'm hesitant with this one as I don't fancy having an invalidated warranty due to both HTC and Vodafone making so there are apps taking up space on the phone that you can't get rid of.

 

So, if I root my phone will I lose the 24 month warranty that comes with it?

72 REPLIES 72

No one man campaign. Giving advice that is not legally binding is incorrect. The advice should be they may void your warranty if rooting is found to have caused the issue. Not they will or it is void because that is clearly not the case. So all i am saying is the advice you and voda reps are giving is not factually correct is it? You and VODA can say anything but it does not make it binding in a court of law. The wording is as such so that each case can be looked at on its own merits. So if you overclocked with root and burnt out the cpu and they CAN PROVE that then your warranty will be void. But if they can not prove that is what caused it or the fault has no bearing on root then it will be repaired under warranty. That is how it is as we have had it confirmed. So you saying the warranty is void is not correct. Voda reps and you are not giving out correct advice you are following what voda say but the does not make it legal or correct i am afraid . So no campaign just what is right. If any of the above is not correct please let someone in authority post not just a customer spouting the same as the CS reps do. Someone from VODA LEGAL

Ben_H
Moderator (Retired)
Moderator (Retired)

Hi paul2550,

Our legal teams do not post on the eForum. My team do.

We've outlined our internal warranty and repairs process in full.

Rooting your phone invalidates our ability to use the warranty. Repairs handled by the manufacturer will be at their discretion. You will need to approach them directly to discuss your options with them.

As the answers provided are now being repeated, my team will only post again if the questions raised haven't already been addressed in the thread.

You are still welcome to post your findings here if you wish. We'll only remove posts that go against the eForum Ts&Cs.

Thanks, 

Ben


Hi Ben fully appreciate that may be how you are instructed. But if you took the time to check with your legal bods my statements will be found to be correct. Saying or claiming something does not make it enforceable in law. Please just can you verify with your legal team As per

Ernest Doku, tech expert at uSwitch.com, points out that using the Sale of Goods Act in the case of mobile phones can be tricky.
"The Sale of Goods Act covers handset faults as opposed to issues arising from wear and tear, and it would be incredibly difficult to prove that an issue with your handset is caused by a manufacturing defect, especially when placing a claim a number of years after purchase,” he says.

 

When it comes to products in general, as well as the Sale of Goods Act there is also a little-known EU directive that gives consumers extra rights for up to two years after buying a product. Small print in the directive can make it more useful than the Sale of Goods Act.

Under the Sale of Goods Act the likelihood of getting a refund is dramatically reduced after just six months. During the first six months after the purchase, it is up to the retailer to show that any fault is down to the actions or misuse of the buyer, rather than an inherent fault in the product.

But after a product is six months old the onus is on the consumer to prove there was a problem when they received the goods, even if it’s taken time to come manifest itself. This might take the form of an engineer’s report - but you’d have to pay for it first.

However, EU directive 1999/44/EC states that: 'A two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU. In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period.'

Crucially a key point in the directive is that it doesn’t require the buyer to show the fault is inherent in the product and not down to their actions, unlike the Sale of Goods Act.

If you take a product back to a store and quote the EU rule you might find that some junior staff are not aware of it. However, if you take your complaint up the chain to the legal team then there  stores will honour the two-year EU guarantee.

Hi paul2550,

 

If you wish to discuss this further, get in touch with us here. As there is nothing we can advise further on the forum.

 

As Ben_H has advised above, that rooting your phone invalidates our ability to use the warranty.

 

Cheers,

 

Laura

Interesting discussion although slightly heated in sections where I really can not see why, after reading all of the information provided it does not actually state in any of the Warranty statements specifically that by unlocking the bootloader on a HTC deivce (in this case) will void your warranty unless the software that you load onto the phone. The main element of HTC's warning is here:

 

It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty.

 

Interesting the above statement is as this suggests that unlocking does not directly invalidate your warranty as far as HTC is concerned however this is more around what the software may have done to the device. I do not know of anyone that has unlocked the bootloader and tried to utilise the Vodafone repairs process so its hard to say if the team that do the repairs would even pickup on the fact that it had been unlocked and refuse to repair the device. That saying all Vodafone reps have always advised that by doing this voids your warranty as far as they are concerned (although this is not worded anywhere in all provided links).

 

I would suggest that unless you really know what you are doing that unlocking the bootloader should not really be attempted and if you do this know that it is possible that if your device goes faulty that Vodafone could reject to repair the device under their warranty terms which would subsequently be argued. 

 

One thing to note, it was popular back in the day to change the ID of Nokia devices to that you got stock firmware available to them - i did this with the N91 back in the day and had sent it in for repair on several occasions due to hardware issues and never had an issue with them being repaired but this was back in the day (many years ago when that company Nokia were around).

 

I must say I have never felt the need to root any of my devices except the HTC Legend but this was once the warranty had actually expired, however I am tempted after reading everything about RCS and my M8 especially as it is trying to install this application now..

If i have helped please feel free to click on the Thumbs Up below

Hi All So i have been away but here is the outcome of my repair. I sent the phone in rooted unlocked bootloader super CID and S- OFF

First Email

HTC <e2e@htc.com>
25 Aug (12 days ago)
  
to me
 
 
 
 

Dear Paul Chambers

This is an courtesy email to inform you that your device has now been received at the repair centre and your repair shall now commence.

Remember, that if you’d like to track your device through this process at all you can do so at our tracking website, http://tracking.htc.com

We’re sorry that your device isn’t functioning the way it should however we’re looking to get this resolved for you as soon as we can!


Many thanks,

HTC Customer Care

Note: This is an automated message - do not respond to this email address as incoming mail is not answered.

If you need to contact the call centre, please use this link http://www.htc.com/www/contact/phone/ quoting your unique ticket number.

Pickup went well Then they sent this
Dear Paul Chambers



Our initial assessment of your device indicates that the repair work required is caused by damage that isn’t covered by warranty. Unfortunately,  this means we must charge you for the repair.



We have prepared a quote for you which you can view, accept and pay for at



https://tracking.htc.com



If you decide not to complete this repair, your device will be returned to you following receipt of payment for the administration and shipping costs incurred. You may use the same link as above to arrange this.
 MY REPLY
Hi i have just been advised to get all the relevant details via head office  and proof that unlocking of the bootloader caused a deadband on the touch screen Please provide proof as per EU LAW.  I have attached the law as advised and am told i will almost certainly win the case.

A bit longer:
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.

A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.

If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.

So now down to what you think is right. Here is the EU LAW

 

So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.

Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!

So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.

In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.

The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.

  1. EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
  2. A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional.
  3. Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
  4. E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
  5. Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
  6. E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
I look forward to your response as i have not seen anything so far that could have caused my touch screen to become faulty as it did it even before unlocking. So i will wait until you have had a look at the law. Mean while i have just spoken to Watchdog and they want to know the outcome. Hope it can be sorted without court but i am more than prepared to go and show up HTC for non compliance of EU LAW.
ALSO ONLINE COMMUNICATION
Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to Sanja.
Sanja:  Hi paul, thank you for contacting HTC Support, I am looking in to your query now.
paul chambers:  Thankyou
Sanja:  You received a quote because you unlocked a bootloader.
Sanja:  Any physical damage, illegal software attempts are not covered in warranty.
Sanja:  If you want I can send you a picture. 0_bootloader.jpg
paul chambers:  under EU law that is irrelvant can you send proof that that caused the touch screen to be faulty you have not sent proof as per consumer law that this is what caused it. Please prove this is what caused it and also refer to my link on EU law
paul chambers:  this i am told i will win in a courtof law as it is not software related
paul chambers:  if i had overclocked and burnt it out then i understand
Sanja:  I will send you a picture right now. We do not need to prove you what caused touch screen to be faulty. You unlocked bootloader and that is out of warranty.  NOW PROVED TO BE WRONG
paul chambers:  but according to other engineers unlocking the bootloader does not cause touch screen to have a dead band across the middle
paul chambers:  i have seen the photo but i am not accepting that as it can not cause the problem i need proof as per consumer law One of the main concerns of Android users is related with its warranty: whether flashing their device will void the phone assurance.

FSFE Legal team has analysed this issue and the answer, if the consumer bought it inside the EU, is no.
The consumer does not loose the obligatory 2-year warranty on the device just because the device is flashed.
"A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it to stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software".
paul chambers:  So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.

Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Direct
paul chambers:  please now becareful how you answer this. As this ie an area of law i am fully conversant with
 THIS THEN GOT ESCALATED TO HEAD OFFICE.
Dear Paul,

This is Alexander from HTC.

As we spoke before, I called you this evening the 26th to inform you about that we have made a decision in your case to repair your device in warranty.
This is a one time thing, and if you have any further questions regarding this you can provide us with your ticket number and that agent will find a log in our system regarding this.

Please let us know if you need any further assistance.

Sincerely,

Alexander

HTC
 So now you can all draw your own conclusions from this. But i am informed that if they were in the right the device would not have been repaired. So to  all the doubters proof has been obtained by myself on my own phone that was FULLY ROOTED as you can see.
I AM NOT ADVISING ANYONE TO ROOT AS IT CAN CAUSE YOUR WARRANTY TO BE VOID.THIS IS TO CONFIRM THAT IT DOES NOT VOID YOUR WHOLE WARRANTY

thesoupdragon
17: Community Champion
17: Community Champion
All I would say is, be careful. If you accept this offer from HTC they will
put a note on your file advising no further repairs if the device has been
unlocked.
If you agree to these terms you will not be able to get future warranty
repairs...
So yes, you have achieved a warranty repair this time only, but not
concluded that unlocking the bootloader is a guaranteed warranty repair.
That's how I read it anyway.

email sent from my HTC One (M8)

HI SD. They have confirmed that the warranty is looked at on an individual basis.  So for instance if you are rooted and the CPU burns out void.  Like mine the chance of rooting or unlocked bootloader of causing a dead section on the screen are minimal.  With leaving the rom  and root on I gave them fair crack at looking to see if it could have been caused.  I will try and dig out the email they sent confirming this.  The chap did say a common sense approach is needed.  

...

hrym
17: Community Champion
17: Community Champion

Responses are being directed to your other thread:

http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Android/Vodaphone-Smart-Ultra-6/td-p/2544807