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[Tom]

Hi ratmanhk,

Magicman13 is correct. I'm really sorry but there's no further assistance we can provide for you.

You're welcome to keep posting in this thread, but please don't expect any further responses from the team. If you ask for further responses, we'll refer you back to this post.

Kind Regards,

Tom

Community Manager

[ratmanhk]

Hello Magicman13,

You obviously haven't read the thread very well. Perhaps you should do that before posting a pointless comment. Mentor? I don't think so. First lesson in helping anyone is to understand the situation in it's entirety. 

My case is no longer with the Ombudsman. It's back with Vodafone. I have sent a letter (3 weeks ago) to request all information held on me under the 1998 Data Protection Act and this has so far been ignored.

All I want to know is what the data was and proof that this usage is possible with that handset in that part of the world.

Magicman13, please don't bother to reply unless you have something useful to say. Thanks.

[ratmanhk]

I have had an idea. If I don't get a satisfactory response from Vodafone director's office within 7 days I am going to start a Google Adwords campaign and it will just link to this thread. Keyword Vodafone. Advert "Vodafone are Stealing From Me".

Should be interesting.

[Magicman13]

If you would care to read my previous comments, i was being helpful and giving advice, based on having read all of your comments in detail, and looking at the response from the eForum team.

So i have said plenty of useful things, the most useful of which has been confirmed as correct by eForum staff, pointing your blinkered vision back to the ombudsman.

They are obviously happy that the charges and usage from your trip to Asia are correct and have declared that to you in writing.

I would suggest that you take heed of their advice rather than trying to slander a company (which, as this is a forum, and all the conversations are logged, could leave you very open to be libel for slanderous comments).

I previously explained that Data protection prevents networks from pulling this information for you to view, that what you are asking for is not going to happen.

The data protection act(1988) is the exact reason this information cannot be supplied. which is probably why it hasnt been actioned.

So in summary....

Helpful parts of this post are as follows...

The obudsman are in agreement with Vodafone re, the charges.

Be considerate when posting comments which may be deemed slanderous to a companies reputation when not true.

And finally, The Data protection act(1988) will prevent Vodafone from accessing all of your Data usage.

Thank you.

[NIghtFalcon]

From what I have gathered Ratmanhk, you are asking that vodafone provide you with the data logs of your usage. The data protection act(1988) is not in place to grant you access to this but is in fact in place to stop companies (such as Vodafone) form releasing the data to 3rd parties.

[ratmanhk]

Magicman13,

Ok. You are clearly incredibly loyal to Vodafone, so much so that you'd think they are paying you. Are they paying you?

Please for a minute indulge me and put yourself in my shoes.... The story goes like this.

You have been using a Blackberry for 4 years. For the last 2 you've had an 8900. During these 2 years you happily travel the globe with your phone receiving and replying to emails, checking the odd football score and news headline and of course using it to make calls. You go to China 4 times, Dubai, America and other places and when you get home your bills come in and the only shock is the call charges. Your data usage never exceeds 20MB per month. Ever! You're happy, you hear about people using data abroad with iPhones etc but you're usage isn't an issue.

In Jan 2011 you get all call from Vodafone begging you to re-sign another contract. You are after all worth £2,000 per year to them and been told you are a "VIP Customer". They tell you about this new phone that would be perfect for you. The Blackberry Torch. You tell them you travel a lot and they say they have nothing more than International Call Saver to help you. You agree to the new contract and the new phone arrives. It's ok.

Feburary comes along and you head off to China with your new phone. When you land you do what you have done time and time again and switch your phone on to check your emails. This time no emails arrive. You turn the phone off and on again. Nothing. You make a call and it seems fine but no emails. You decide to check your webmail instead but the browser doesn't work telling you that your provider doesn't support it. When you arrive at the office you connect to the Wi-Fi and all your emails come flooding into the phone. Hooray you say. When you leave the office to go to the hotel the emails stop working again, they start working when you get to the hotel and connect to their Wi-Fi. The problem persists.

2 days later you get a call from Vodafone asking you if you were aware that you had used 346MB of data and your bill is £1,108.00? Of course you're not aware and you think "This must be a mistake, I wouldn't use that much data in a year and a half!!". They argue with you on the phone asking you to make a payment or they will cut you off. The argument lasts over 15mins and the call costs you £25.00. Further calls cost you another £40.00 but nothing gets sorted out and nobody can tell you how you've managed to use so much data and what it might be. This is the case a year later. Nobody can tell you how this has happened. You know 100% for certain you didn't get any emails and weren't browsing anything. You know for certain that you don't have any Apps because you don't use them. You have an iPad Touch for music and Apps.

When you get home you get a bill for £1,108.00 and it must be paid in 14 days.

Magicman, you seem to be the fountain of all knowledge, "The Oracle", what would you do? Please tell me how you would handle this situation. I know it's hard but just put your "neutral hat on" accept the above events as 100% truth and imagine it was you and not me. What would you do? How would you handle it?

[biffo1963]

As I said a long time back in this thread - you've obviously been stiffed, the difficulty is to see exactly where - or rather how.    I can only admire your tenacity in the face of insurmountable odds.  As I'm sure you've realised, you are getting all this attitude because you've pulled them up on something you were not supposed to question in the first place, and you've then compounded the offence by refusing to accept "tough" as an answer and continuing to pursue your case.   

Have you considered taking this to someone like Bachelor and Brignall in The Guardian, or the lady who handles consumer issues in The Sunday Times ( sorry can't remember her name ! )    They both have good records of getting large, faceless and intransigent companies to accept that not all of their customers are demented, inveterate liars, or both  !   The Consumer Action Group forum is pretty good too - not sure it's appropriate for this case though.

[ratmanhk]

Thanks Biffo1963. I've just emailed the people in the Guardian and the women in the Observer. I've done a search and found the same people in the Times and Telegraph and emailed them too.

I wrote a letter to every single Director of Vodafone and Stefan Langkamp and have got nothing back. None of them give a sh*t clearly. I got an email saying Vodafone's position will not change. There is no "position". I want to know what this data was and proof that this sort of usage is even possible in China on my device. I want to know how this can happen. If they accuse me of having Apps then this can be proved by Blackberry Apps. I have a statement from them showing I had no Apps on the phone. 

I appreciate your comments and as you say I face insurmountable odds. It's not so much about the money. I will have to pay and then go to small claims court and hire a decent solicitor to fight my case. I'm too angry to drop it too. I have loads of evidence. Names of Vodafone staff who have told me "It seems impossible" ... "Very odd" .. "Must be some mistake". They get so far and then are obviously told to leave it alone.

Again appreciate your comments and I'll let you know if I get anywhere.

[AsthmaticTurnip]

I don't see why you are still fighting this if its been to ottello, if it was incorrect they would of picked up on it. Vodafones billing system is regulated by the BABT and ofcom.

By all means pay a solicitor to look at your phone bill, I just don't want to see you out of pocket.

Why don't you just ask customer services to come to some sort of agreement perhaps on a gesture of good will bases to close the complaint?

maybe set up a payment plan ?

if you just don't pay it, you will ruin your credit raiting as well.

[ratmanhk]

The issue with OTELO is they never looked into the usage. They simply asked Vodafone if the IMEI numbers matched and came up with their decision. They said. "we think you were using data when you thought you weren't". Just another example of assuming the customer is a complete idiot and has to be the one who's made a mistake. I wrote to the CEO of OTELO asking him to review the case and look at the data usage amounts and compare them with what I had used historically. I got a letter back saying they had made a decision and I should go to court. OTELO, a bunch of useless, biased, lazy pen pushers making money for nothing. If you're too scared or too lazy to deal with a case properly then why bother being in existence? Vodafone have agreed a payment plan. That's nice of them. It's like agreeing a payment plan with a mugger. Meet me down this alleyway with £150.00 every Friday. Credit rating. Not bothered.

[savio27]

Maybe a bit too late, but to save money whilst travelling outside the EU, just turn data roaming off. There are abundant free wi-fi spots in China so you could have used the net without paying a penny.

[ratmanhk]

Thanks for the advice but as per my previous postings I never had to worry before. I need to get emails and where I go in China is quite remote.

[ratmanhk]

See below email I received from the Directors Office. They don't even have the courtesty to write to me. Vodafone's position? .... Their position as far as I can see it is ...

"Vodafone are not interested into looking into your unusual or even impossible data usage in Feb 2011 and prefer to treat you as a complete liar and a fool. We have no interest in illustrating to you how this might have happened and why it never happened before nor after this date. Truth be told it's a great thing that it did happen because we've made another £,1,108.00 profit. We know you have politely written letters to everyone at senior level and requested the personal data we hold on you but we are going to ignore all this and hope you go away. After all, who are you in the grand scheme of things anyway??"

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx,

I am writing to you regarding your recent contact on the eForum. Further to our email on the 13th of March i can confirm that Vodafone's position remains unchanged.

I can confirm that we will not be revisiting this matter and no further response shall now be forthcoming.

Kind regards

(name removed for security) Team Manager Directors Office Email: (removed for security)

Vodafone UK, The Connection, Newbury, Berkshire RG14 2FN Registered in England No 1471587 vodafone.co.uk

This message and any files or documents attached are confidential and may also be legally privileged, protected from disclosure and/or protected by other legal rules. It is intended only for the individual or entity named. If you are not the named addressee or you have received this email in error, please inform the sender immediately, delete it from your system and do not copy or disclose it or its contents or use it for any purpose. Thank you. Please also note that transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.

[NIghtFalcon]

One major problem I see is that you claim it is an impossible amount of data to use but this can easily be used within 3 or 4 days.

[ratmanhk]

You say that NightFalcon but I have never managed to use more than 25MB in a month in 5 years of owning a Blackberry. 

This data was supposed to be used within 2 days (Have a look at the attached bill). How come I have never been able to get close to this usage after this date and never before either?

You have to remember that BlackBerry phones use less data than comparable phones from other manufacturers.  With BlackBerry phones, the data you request gets compressed by RIM's servers before being sent to your phone, therefore you use less of it. (APPARENTLY). 

Read this article. http://crackberry.com/increased-data-usage-vs-blackberry. Usage is 4 times higher if you have an iPhone. So if you think about it, if you had an iPhone you would have to used around 1GB in a single day to match my apparent usage on Feb 21st 2011. Oh and this is in China on a 2G Network, in the space of 4 hours. 

[NIghtFalcon]

What that will be then is while you had your phone off an update will have been applied. Then when you turned your phone on it will have automatically updated downloading an excessive amount of data. Even though you havn't pressed to do it physically your phone will have been scanning networks and then downloading updates for you.

[ratmanhk]

Updating what ?  I don't have any Apps.

[Jebelious]

I have skimmed through some of the posts here and also looked at your initial statement and further comments relating to OTELLO's responses etc.

Firstly you can immediately tell that the data used was done so using the Blackberry APN (connection) while on your visit. Now i am not sure on how the whole data thing works in China in relation to Blackberry however the device could very well have been attempting to send/receive data however for some reason was unable to actually use the data.

Now one thing Vodafone may be able to providde you is a breakdown of the data upload vs download amounts showing if it was your device requesting or receiving the data (should not be an issue for them to get this information unless they do not have the records now)

This way you will at least be able to know something, if the problem was in relation to data downloaded then there are possibly a few explinations -

1. The device was stuck attempting to download a file and for some reason (maybe a network failure) was unable to download the contents.

2. Device failure working with the roaming network.

I have never enquired in to asking for information surrounding destination address downloading information.
I have done a quick google search and found this link:

http://www.vodafone.co.uk/consumer/groups/public/documents/webcontent/vf052779.pdf

Which would suggest that data information is not available.

[NIghtFalcon]

A system update.

[ratmanhk]

Hi Jebelious,

Vodafone are refusing to talk to me so the chances of me getting the data you talk about are very low. I will send the form in anyway. Can't do any harm.

I still have a record of all the emails I received on that day in my Inbox on my desktop. They total 3,812KB. (3.81MB). I sent nothing on that day because I couldn't. What data was the phone trying to receive? Just doesn't make any sense.

If it was a problem with the device then who do I got after for compensation ... Blackberry?? Vodafone sold me the phone so surely they are responsible legally? 

Thanks again and I will try and get the info you are talking about, scan it and post it on here.

Kind regards,

ratmanhk