Samsung Galaxy S3

[picadillyjim]

Who all are due for an upgrade at about the same time the SGS III is available?

MY HTC Desire HD contract would have ended just about now, but I had opted for an early upgrade to switch to the SGS II, now I cannot do anything for atleast another year or so.

[Simon · Accepted solution]

Hi picadillyjim

Thanks for your post. The only way that you'bbe able to upgrade early is by paying the early termination fee (ETF) on your existing agreement to take you out of contract. The ETF is made up of your line rental excluding VAT up to the end of your contract.

Your standard eligibility is within the final 50 days of your agreement and you can find out your upgrade date on My Account.

Thanks

Simon 

[picadillyjim]

Thanks Simon,

I guess I knew it would be something like this.

But now that the topic has come up, What exactly is the line rental? Is it the entire amount in my monthly plan, whcih included the minutes and texts?

Given that I am going to upgrade to a brand new phone, i.e probably end up with a higher monthly rental, why Vodafone/any other phone company  be losing anything if I upgrade tomorrow? I agree that this line rental includes a component of cost of the phone - that would be a small fraction of the total monthly rental considering I have also paid some cash down for the phone.

Just arguing thats all, I don't expect anything to change.

[Webreaper]

You need to understand how the pricing model works, and remember that these devices cost £500 or so to buy without a contract. Whilst you might feel like you're getting a 'free' phone, it's not free at all - Vodafone are merely spreading the cost of the device across your contract term.

So when you signed up for your early upgrade to your SGS2, Voda was almost certainly giving you a subsidised handset - i.e., the total cost of ownership (TCO) for the life of the contract is what pays for you to get a cheap/free device. They're not giving you the free device out of the goodness of their hearts - somebody (i.e., you) has to pay for it.

So if you terminate your contract a year early, instead of you paying (say) 24 x £35/month = £840, you're actually paying around £400, which isn't enough to cover the cost of the device, let alone the call/sms/data services you've used already. That's why they have to charge an early termination fee.

If you want to see this in action, price up a comparison for a cheap SIM-only connection (e.g., £15/month) + device, versus the cost of a contract. Across the time-span, you'll see it works out the same:

£15 x 24 months + £499 for a SIM-free Galaxy S3
versus
£36 x 24 months + a free Galaxy S3


Works out about the same cost....

[picadillyjim]

Thanks Webreaper

I understand all that.

I have mentioned in my post that I know the cost of the phone is inluded in the monthly rentals.

and I am not asking anyone to give me the phone for free.

and in my original post, I thought I just expressed a wistfulness that i cannot do anything till my contract ends. Buying out my contract is not an option for me.

All I am saying is the cost of a new phone sim free by and large seems to be around 500 quid or thereabouts. It certainly is not in the range of 840 quid or thereabouts which is the typical price of a contract.

I would expect the ETF to be an amount that basically recovers the cost of the phone,less the cash amount already paid, not the cost of phone + unused minutes and data over the entire remaining length of the contract.

Anyway, I will spend some time with the calculations suggested by you and see what i can see .

[Webreaper]

Not sure I get you. You sign up for a 2-year contract, and then want to break that contract. Why would you expect Voda to let you walk away without penalty (even if you covered the device cost)? Imagine the churn for them - people would sign up, get the devices, use them for a couple of months and then leave - which simply isn't in their interests.

Also, bear in mind that when you get a device/contract for 2 years, the minutes/data etc is likely to be significantly more than a SIM-free deal.

If you don't want to be tied into a contract, so you can change your device more regularly, then just pay for the device yourself from Expansys etc., and get a SIM-free deal from Voda (or whoever). The costs are approximately the same (as I've demonstrated) - the main difference is whether or not you want to pay for the device up-front yourself.

[picadillyjim]

Dear Webreaper

First of all I don't want to break ANY contract.

Only arguing hypothetically, ok?

Now,

Even hypothetically, I don't want to Break the contract, I want to UPGRADE to a new contract with the new SGS III.

This is a brand new phone, likely to cost much more than a brand new SGS II sim free. I am probably going to end up with a higher initial cash payment and a higher monthly rental. So no walking away involved at all, just end up paying even more money to Vodafone than I am doing now.

Now I fully appreciate and expect there to be a contract breakage penalty, and I was perfectly aware that it is the remaining monthly rental for the unused part of the contract.

I am just putting forward an argument that given the fact I am UPGRADING my contract, maybe the breakage penalty can be a little lower and take into account only the cost of the phone, as well as what I have already paid for it.

That is ok, I will go through the calculations myself and see how they make sense, don't want to argue about the nitty gritty of it any more. They will probably make sense, once I do the sums.

All I would like you to understand at the moment is, I am not asking to break my contract or walk away from it or anything. Like everybody else, I too am thinking wistfully about the SGS III, but if you read my original post in this thread, all I wanted to know at this stage is who all are lucky enough to be out of contract at the time the SGS II becomes available, as I myself am aware that I upgraded couple months too early and hence am locked in for some more time before I can get it. I know I can't get it, but I can yearn for it right?

[Webreaper]

It's just terminology. You're locked into an X-month contract, and want to end that contract early to start a new contract with a new phone. You can call it "upgrading" all you want, but what you're talking about is breaking the contract early, and starting a new contract. You seem to be getting frustrated with me for pointing out the facts.

In a year's time you'll be ready to upgrade and will get yourself an S4 (or whatever) which will undoubtedly come with a 2.4Ghz 8-core CPU, 1020p screen, 4-day battery life and 2mm thick form-factor. I'm lucky enough to be able to get an S3, but that's because I've had a Nexus One for over 2 years, and when my current contract ended in January I was patient and waited to see what devices came out (OneX, S3, etc).

If you can afford to break the contract, pay the difference, and get an S3 in a new contract, great! If you can't, just enjoy the fact that you have an S2 - which is an extremely capable phone and a very nice device.

One other option if you're desperate for an S3 is to sell your S2 (for about £200, judging by eBay) and then buy a SIM-free S3 for about £450. You'll be about £250 out-of-pocket, but won't be starting a new contract so can upgrade sooner in future, and it'll probably still work out cheaper in the long run than breaking the contract and starting a new one to get a subsidised device.

[NeoBlade]

Sadly that's how contracts run. The other option could be to sell the device and use that money to put towards buying out the remainder of your contract. You'll probably get £270-ish for the phone, which probably isn't enough to cover your early termination/upgrade fee. I don't think Vodafone offer trade-ins as well on handsets unlike other stores.

[picadillyjim]

Not getting frustrated at the facts at all webreaper. I understand what you are saying, and I will work out the figures as suggested by you.

Yes, if I really really want the SIII I will figure out a way of getting it, otherwise I have an ICS Phone up and running. and it is not 24 months, I only have to wait 12 months. The end is in sight.

[Webreaper]

Right, exactly. Whilst the S3 is shiny and new, to all intents and purposes an S2 running ICS is a fantastic device, so personally I would stick with what you've got and just get excited about the kinds of devices that'll be available in another 12 months! Newer isn't always better. I love my Nexus One, and even without ICS I'd personally keep it, if it wasn't for the fact that it continually runs out of external storage (because app developers like Facebook etc can't seem to understand the importance of running apps from SD... Grrrrr).

[NeoBlade]

Webreaper, if you still have your N1, then root it and install a custom ROM with ICS/CM7.2/CM9 and A2SD You won't get any "Low Internal Storage" issues anymore then if you partition your SDCard to 512MB-1GB for exclusive storage of apps.

The SGS2 though is still a lovely phone and has plenty of life left in it. Also coming up, look out for the HTC One XL which will have Krait (Snapdragon 4 CPU) and hopefully a more powerful Adreno GPU.

[Sander123]

Is the xl scheduled for release in the UK?

[NeoBlade]

It should be but won't be just yet. I'm guessing it'll be near the end of the year. The USA version of the HTC One X (AT&T actually) has a better CPU inside it ("Krait", the new Snapdragon 4) than the International version we have (nVidia Tegra3). 

Now to the average user there is no difference and everything still runs silky smooth. If you like the details though then the new generation of Snapdragon CPUs are actually very good indeed and perform better than the Tegra3. The only issue is that at the moment you have a powerful CPU but it is paired with a weak GPU in comparison. Fingers crossed though that will be different by the time it comes out over here...

[PaulE]

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picadillyjim wrote:

 What exactly is the line rental? Is it the entire amount in my monthly plan, which included the minutes and texts?

Given that I am going to upgrade to a brand new phone, i.e probably end up with a higher monthly rental, why Vodafone/any other phone company  be losing anything if I upgrade tomorrow? I agree that this line rental includes a component of cost of the phone - that would be a small fraction of the total monthly rental considering I have also paid some cash down for the phone.

Hi picadillyjim, 

The line rental is the amount you have agreed to pay for a specific number of months - if you wanted to end early, as Simon has said, then you'd have to pay it all off - this is because as has been rightly said the line rental covers the costs we incur by providing you with your handset.

On top of this is the fact that your line rental payments go towards the costs of running the network, and ultimately towards making us money (We are a business after all )

You mention that you have a year left to go before you can upgrade, and it is entirely possible that there'll be another generation of handset out by then, but if you;d like us to give you some exact dates then follow the instructions in the PM I've sent you and we'll be in touch

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[adam_r]

picadillyjim -

In all honesty i dont thing the SGS3 is advanced enough to warrant swapping your SGS2 for.

if you root your phone and perform a few tweaks im sure it will easily last you another year to when the SGS4 will/might be out

Im only going for the SGS3 because my HTC HD2 has just died on me so im now rocking an ancient samsung (a GTE2121B to be exact!)

its painful going from 4.3 inch touch screen to a 1 inch non touch screen! with no 3.5mm socket or headphones

If you do want to buy outt your contract, then as stated above.. you signed a contract for a fixed period, if you break this contract by wanting ot end it early you will have to pay the full amount back (minus VAT).

Think of your phone like a house that the bank has lent you on a 30 year contract. 15 years through you no longer want the house and wamt to upgrade the house but you only want to pay the bank back 50% of what its due ? 

[picadillyjim]

Thanks Adam and Paul.

Yes, I think I will stick with what I have got till the contract runs out its course and then see what options I have,

Only problem I still have is people continue to think that i somehow want something for nothing. It is not that.. I do understand that monthly rentals include the cost of the phone spread out over x months. I do understand that when you try to break a contract, there will be some sort of penalty. I do understand Mobile companies are not in this for charity and they need to make some profits too. My only point was the monthly rentals also include the cost of minutes and text and data and costs of maintaining the network and which make Vodafone some money - well this part of the rental I am not going to stop paying - if anything I probably continue to pay a little more for a plan with newer phone.

Anyway, if that argument is wrong, so be it, I will correct myself. It just did not look so dumb to me when I started this whole topic.

[adam_r]

Jim,

I dont think your after something for nothing.. just trying to explain

I can see where you are comming from with paying more with a newer contract, but still vodafone will be expecting your current contract to be earning them money until termination.

I have looked in to canceling contracts in prvious years but decided it is not a financially sound option as technically you would be paying for 2 contracts for the remainer of your period.

I would be buying an SGS2 if the SGS3 didnt have such a good DAC in it as i dont think the SGS3 is all that much of a change from the SGS2.. and TBH  think the SGS2 looks much better.

Give me an SGS3 screen size and internals in a slightly bigger SGS2 case and it would have been perfect for me.

[Webreaper]

Adam, isn't that pretty much what the sgs3 is?!?! ;-)

[picadillyjim]

I guess, if the Note had been available with Vodafone when I upgraded, I would'nt have been opening this discussion at all. Maybe in a years time they will come up with a better version of Note that I can go for.