faulty USB flap thingy.

[jaygrim]

Hi, I've had my Sony experia Z2 for a few weeks now and the flap thing that covers it is always coming loose. Any ideas if I can get this sorted?

[yourusernamemus]

Well actually the EU rules don't apply in the UK, as we already have better than theirs.

The SOGA covers you for 6 years, so we'd be foolish to ask for it to be reduced to two.

Apple have to comply with this and state that they do on their website. I don't see sony pointing out their phones are covered for 6 years by the SOGA (or the SOGAS act) 

I think the obligations are pretty clear.

Cant post links here, but have a look at (adding the dots) www moneysavingexpert com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange

Many companies, vodafone included, push you to the manufacturer, rather than dealing with it themselves, and won't point out that you have the right to reject the goods instead of accepting a replacement repair.

The one bone of contention is the proof, independent proofs of fault are expensive. Who should pay for them, and who is "independent" as even if you paid £60 for a report that said a batch of batteries in a phone for example were all failling prematurely (lets say at 2.5 years, when normal was 5) then the manufacturer, could argue that report wasnt' independent.

[jeffkinn]

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. First of all mobile phones with contracts are covered by the Sale of Goods and Services Act, although this does give pretty much the same protection as SOGA.

The 6 year thing is not relevant - no time scale is actually laid down but a product has to be fit for purpose for potentially up to 6 years. How long is appropriate depends on the item in question. A washing machine, for instance, should be expected to last for 6 years or more. A mobile phone would not and after 2 years you'd be significantly pushing your luck.

Vodafone definitely does not push people to manufacturers as they have a very comprehensive repair service. People like me, customers and members of the public, advise going to manufacturers because we think you'll get a better and quicker service.

[yourusernamemus]

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@jeffkinn wrote:

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. First of all mobile phones with contracts are covered by the Sale of Goods and Services Act, although this does give pretty much the same protection as SOGA.

So as good as the same thing, glad we agree.Unless you can point out that pointing people to the SOGA would mislead them?

The 6 year thing is not relevant - no time scale is actually laid down but a product has to be fit for purpose for potentially up to 6 years. How long is appropriate depends on the item in question. A washing machine, for instance, should be expected to last for 6 years or more.

Except you only have 6 years to make the claim, so it's highly relevant.

A mobile phone would not and after 2 years you'd be significantly pushing your luck.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, however that doesn't make it a fact. Do you have a legal precedent that sets that? I have a Nokia phone 25 years old, still working and several that are 10+ years, so I'd say that 6 is reasonable especially as we are talking here about a manufacturing fault. You also have missed the fact that costs plays a part. If a 10 pound mobile phone is expected to last 2 years. Then why should we not expect one more than 10 times the price to only last at least 3 times the length. One expects a more expensive dishwasher / washing machine to last longer, the same rule applies to the mobile phone - however with regard to your point about the warranties, good luck trying to make a claim at 25 months with Sony, they will say speak to vodafone..who still have an obligation under the SOGAS act...

Vodafone definitely does not push people to manufacturers as they have a very comprehensive repair service. People like me, customers and members of the public, advise going to manufacturers because we think you'll get a better and quicker service.

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People like you, what an interesting thing to say, so you're not a customer or a member of the public then. As for the manufacturers being quicker/better, My experience with a Samsung device was totally different, slower, took three attempts to fix. Also with Sony itself, people that had cracked screens on Sony phones that were featured on Watchdog recently Sony's initial response was. "Sony insists to most people that this is not a design fault and that its standard warranty will not cover repairs. " So people would have had to go back to Vodafone, or whoever they bought the phone from, as it was only after pressure that Sony relented “In a small proportion of cases, screens have indeed cracked with no identifiable cause and in these instances the phone has been repaired for free.” However for many that was months later, so not a quicker or better service. Do you have any evidence that the service vodafone provides is slower and of worse quality then than the manufacturers?

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@jeffkinn wrote:

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. First of all mobile phones with contracts are covered by the Sale of Goods and Services Act, although this does give pretty much the same protection as SOGA.

The 6 year thing is not relevant - no time scale is actually laid down but a product has to be fit for purpose for potentially up to 6 years. How long is appropriate depends on the item in question. A washing machine, for instance, should be expected to last for 6 years or more. A mobile phone would not and after 2 years you'd be significantly pushing your luck.

Vodafone definitely does not push people to manufacturers as they have a very comprehensive repair service. People like me, customers and members of the public, advise going to manufacturers because we think you'll get a better and quicker service.

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@jeffkinn wrote:

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. First of all mobile phones with contracts are covered by the Sale of Goods and Services Act, although this does give pretty much the same protection as SOGA.

The 6 year thing is not relevant - no time scale is actually laid down but a product has to be fit for purpose for potentially up to 6 years. How long is appropriate depends on the item in question. A washing machine, for instance, should be expected to last for 6 years or more. A mobile phone would not and after 2 years you'd be significantly pushing your luck.

Vodafone definitely does not push people to manufacturers as they have a very comprehensive repair service. People like me, customers and members of the public, advise going to manufacturers because we think you'll get a better and quicker service.

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[jeffkinn]

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yourusernamemus wrote:

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People like you, what an interesting thing to say, so you're not a customer or a member of the public then. 

Sorry not sure what this means. I am a customer and member of the public with no connection to Vodafone whatsoever other than as a customer.

[yourusernamemus]

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@jeffkinn wrote:

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@yourusernamemus wrote:

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People like you, what an interesting thing to say, so you're not a customer or a member of the public then. 

Sorry not sure what this means. I am a customer and member of the public with no connection to Vodafone whatsoever other than as a customer.

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Jeff, in your previous post, you said. People like me. and Members of the Public. and Customers. So you separated yourself from the the latter three groups, leading me to believe you weren't one of those groups. Glad you cleared up the mis-understanding. Any source for your claim that it's not reasonable to expect a premium expensive mobile phone to last longer than 2 years?

[jeffkinn]

Experience of life and 25 years as a senior corporate executive as a financial director (not Tesco I'm pleased to say). 2 year contracts and new models every 12 months demonstrates quite clearly that these phones have an expected life span of 24 months. To expect anything more is unlikely to be regarded as reasonable.

[yourusernamemus]

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@jeffkinn wrote:
Experience of life and 25 years as a senior corporate executive as a financial director (not Tesco I'm pleased to say). 2 year contracts and new models every 12 months demonstrates quite clearly that these phones have an expected life span of 24 months. To expect anything more is unlikely to be regarded as reasonable.

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As an FD, I'd expect you to recognise the fact that value plays an important part, which you're missing.

If you are talking about a £20 pay as you go phone, then you're right, 2 years is more than reasonable, however as has already been shown in a number of legal precedents (perhaps you should ask the legal director?), if we expect a £100 dishwasher to last 1 year, then its' reasonable to expect a £200 one to last longer, similarly a £500 bosch washing machine 5 years...

Why on earth you'd not expect a £700 phone to last longer than a £20 one I don't know. However, since the law disagrees with you, it doesn't really matter.

[jeffkinn]

A dishwasher is made of lots of metal and stays in one place and is probably used once a day. A mobile phone is much more complicated technology than a domestic appliance. It is carried around in people's pockets all day every day and is subjected to lots of abuse. They are held, dropped, get wet and all sorts of other things. 

That's why it is not reasonable to expect a phone to last longer than two years and it's why high end smpartphones have a shorter life than much simpler feature phones.

If you think the law will uphold a claim of up to six years on a smartphone you are seriously misguided IMHO. But good luck to you. 

[yourusernamemus]

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@jeffkinn wrote:

A dishwasher is made of lots of metal and stays in one place and is probably used once a day. A mobile phone is much more complicated technology than a domestic appliance. It is carried around in people's pockets all day every day and is subjected to lots of abuse. They are held, dropped, get wet and all sorts of other things. 

That's why it is not reasonable to expect a phone to last longer than two years and it's why high end smpartphones have a shorter life than much simpler feature phones.

If you think the law will uphold a claim of up to six years on a smartphone you are seriously misguided IMHO. But good luck to you. 

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Clearly I've missed my vocation, I should have been an FD.

Lets play that back to you.

A mobile phone is made of lots of metal and carried around, often in protective cases, with added screen protectors on it and is lightly used 3 -4 times a day. A dishwasher is much more complicated technology than a phone. It has to deal with water and mains eletricity is subjected to lots of abuse and often runs non-stop over the week end. They are shaken, get wet get covered in grime and all sorts of other things. 

That's why it is not reasonable to expect a dishwasher to last longer than two years and it's why high end dishwashers have a shorter life than much simpler feature diswashers.

But you're conveniently ignoring a point of the sale of goods (and just for you services) act.

Fit for purpose. The phone, wether feature phone or smartphone should be designed to be fit for the purpose, which is carried around in people's pockets all day every day and is subjected a reasonable amount of wear.

Plus your point when it's in reverse, it's clear its not true. Unfortunatly for you, the law doesn't say the a more complicated device can last a shorter period of time than a simpler one. It does state quite clearly that is expects a more expensive device to last longer than a cheaper one.

So simply 

Samsung Galaxy Y for example (   £29.95 bought outright) does Email/Web/Music/Video/GPS/Games.

Iphone 6                 for example (£519.00 bought outright) does Email/Web/Music/Video/GPS/Games.

Even though the Iphone 6, is £470 more, it should not last any longer according to you? So 2 years fine on both?

Even though in the case of a more expensive television, car, fridge, radio, the law says so.

If you think the law doesn't protect you more than 2 years then you should seek legal advice, as you'll be pleasantly suprised at how wrong you are.

PS I notice Karen from the tech team thanks you for each and every post, is that a special option I'm missing? 🙂

[jeffkinn]

I'm afraid that I disagree with your entire line of reasoning bu I suspect we are never going to convince each other so the conversation stops here. If you have evidence concrete evidence that someone has successfully claimed on a warranty after say 3 or 4 years I'd be delighted to see it.

As for the thanks - I assume that's because the eforum team think I'm right and I'm giving our sound advice.