BT Infinity, Sure Signal and Twitter

[HalHovland]

Following exchange on Twitter, I'm here to see if you can fix my Sure signal. Its a model 9361 Home Cell V2.2. The new modem is one supplied by BT Openreach two weeks ago and the router is a BT Business Hub 3. It has a WAN static IP. I gave the Sure Signal a static IP on my LAN, and I went through the process of setting up all the ports required by the Sure Signal with a senior BT support person:- 8, 50, 500 (which required switching off a router feature known as BT Wi-Fi), 4500, 123 (NTP) and 1723 (PPTP). Other ports listed in various posts here were not required as they are used by hubs/routers other than BT. BT was able to reach, via the WAN static IP, through the ports to the device. I tried it with the Sure Signal in the DMZ and not in the DMZ. I tried it with the router firewall off and on. It brought a new meaning to Einstein's aphorism that "to keep trying the same thing over and over in the expectation of a different outcome is the definition of madness". I've tried every combination quite a few times, and I'm sure I am not alone. In the end (after several hours on the phone), BT support said it should work and so I asked about PPPoE and MTU. After a moment's embarrassed silence he said, "oh yes, you are on Infinity, I should have realised - it will not work". Even then I put it through more setting changes and tests. I then re-contacted Vodafone support - I thought "what do BT know?", and finally got the statement that Sure Signal, because of MTU and PPPoE/A incompatibilities, will not work with BT Infinity. Now, if you want me to waste any more time, before I do any of the tests, yet again, I would like someone to say that MTU and PPPoE issues can be overcome. Several articles appeared yesterday in the national papers on how good Sure Signal will be for the rural community (of which I am part), and I've Tweeted my findings to all of them in reply. Let me say these are not my conclusions but statements by BT and Vodafone support. Regards, Hal

[HalHovland]

That date is interesting. That is the day we started using BT Infinity, so you did see it that day. It has been connected more or less continuously since then, and is now. Is it possible it spontaneously broke that day?

How do you suggest I test it with a different connection.

If you mean a different router, I bought an ASUS N66D specially for this and it does not work with that either.

Are you saying that it cannot work with the BT Business Hub 3? Has anyone got a Sure Signal working with BT Business Infinity? If so, I'd like to know what router they use.

Isn't there anything Vodafone can do to test it?

Regards, Hal

[HalHovland]

I should also have said we had stopped using the previous version of BT Broadband on July 10, so your seeing the Sure Signal on the 14th was via BT Infinity and confirms what BT said when they tried troubleshooting it on BT Infinity, which was that they could detect it.

Regards, Hal

[Retired-Kay]

Hi HalHovland, 

We did experience issues with the Home Hub 3, although I understand you have a business version. 

The fact that it doesn't work with another router does point to a fault with the Sure Signal. To be sure, please try it at a friend or family members (so it's using a different internet connection) and we'll then have a definite answer. 

Thanks, 

Kay

[HalHovland]

Is that the best Vodafone can do? The Sure Signal probably broke on the very day we started using BT Infinity? Using Occam's Razor it might be that the Sure siganl cannot work with BT Infinity, which is a pity because that is being rolled out nationally.

I may have to move us away from Vodafone and return to Orange. I've dug up some old Orange phones that support UMA and they are performing faultlessly via BT Infinity.

[Retired-Ian_]

Hi HalHovland,

So we know the Sure Signal is working, please follow Kay's suggestion and let us know the result.

Thanks,

Ian

[HalHovland]

And how exactly do you suggest I try a different broadband?

I seem to be getting nowhere with this. It is nearly a month since the Sure Signal first failed to connect - on the very day we moved to BT Infinity. Surely you are not suggesting that the Sure Signal broke just after BT managed to see that it was present, but who then said that it would not work with BT Infinity because of MTU and PPPoE issues.

Vodafone are going to have to admit that the Sure signal does not work with BT Infinity.

I've just tried it yet again with a different router, the ASUS DSL-N66U, and attach an image of some of the log, which shows that 3745 bytes were transfered on port 500 (the Sure Signal has a static LAN ip address of 192.168.1.13). I would think that this shows that the Sure Signal is working.

Can nobody come up with a better idea that to try to connect the Sure Signal via a different broadband, which we do not have access to? It failed at the point where we upgraded to BT Infinity! We could spend many hours finding another friendly broadband user, disrupt their time and place, find that the Sure Signal work, as it did on the broadband we had just before we moved to BT Infinity and then start the dialog with vodafone again. What a waste of our time.

I am in the process of contacting OFCOM with a complaint about the service and will take to the Twittersphere again to ensure everyone is aware that the most popular fibre broadband will not work with Sure Signal.

 Regards

[grolschuk]

Sorry, I didn't see the message above saying the attachment wasn't attached and you would like to see it, so 2nd attempt at including it for you.

Edit: No idea why it won't let me attach this image for you

Edit Edit: looks like it was my laptop/browser as a different machine works fine

[HalHovland]

grolschuk, many thanks.

I can see that you are using MTU=1492 and PPPoE, which is heartening.

I see from the picture of the device that you are using a Sure Signal V3, while I'm using a Sure Signal V2.

That might be the answer, but no-one at Vodafone has picked up on this.

[grolschuk]

I've had multiple v1 and v3 devices running on this setup to test they work before sending out to our staff at home (I am not sure I have any v2 go out) so don't think the version of the suresignal will matter... they all use the same ports and protocols to setup the vpn and connect back to vodafone.

It is almost always the router trying to be clever and buggering around with the traffic, or in some rare cases a software firewall actually on the interent connection provided by the ISP needing to be turned off.

I've always been confused by the PPPoE/PPPoA argument for this, as that is how the modem connects to the interent. Once that connection is up, the IP traffic should flow over it and not care what type of connection it is.

I would hope that the development bods are talking to BT and Sky to try and narrow down what is going on with their hardware to stop the connection from happening, but can't think it would be a quick thing to find, nor the resulting fix to roll out.

[HalHovland]

Thanks again, grolschuk.

Yes, the PPPoA/PPPoE discussion does seem odd. Actually, in you first picture it shows PPPoA is in use and in the second it shows PPPoE, but that might just be my unfamiliarity with the specific router.

I'm wondering if I should just buy the same router as you show, and then subject to what I find, go on to get a Sure Signal 3, and hope for the best. Not very scientific, and as you say, it may be a software/middleware issue that needs to be sorted out by the suppliers.

With that router, did you just enable UPnP, and possibly port clamping, or did you specifically do all the port setting up that the Sure Signal requires? 

Regards, Hal