Sure Signal 1 and BT Home Hub 5

[Caedels]

Hi
Hope you can sort this out. Living in an area where there is no available VodaFone signal, the SureSignal v1(SS1) is an essential bit of kit which I have had for years and was working fine, but has now decided to give up the ghost. The issue is as follows:- Mobile phone signal los, so checked SS1 and found it sitting there with lights 1 and 2 glowing green, then light 4 flashes for a while and then the thing reboots and we go through the process again. The specified ports are open on the router as per prevous posts. I have tried everything, resetting, different leads, different locations in the property, de-registered and then re-registered and as a last resort I even tried with a BT Home Hub 3 - always the same result. Fault diagnosis results are as follows: 

External IP: 86.181.75.50

Speed Test:  Down: 62.61 Mbps,  Up: 16.41Mbps

Ping 29ms Jitter 19ms, Line Quality B*

SS1 Serial No: 21197033026

Tracert Results:

Tracing route to cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk [212.183.133.177]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  BThomehub.home [192.168.1.160]
  2     4 ms     4 ms     4 ms  172.16.14.141
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     9 ms     8 ms     8 ms  217.41.216.29
  5    11 ms    11 ms    10 ms  213.120.176.26
  6    28 ms    29 ms    25 ms  217.41.168.147
  7    27 ms    26 ms    28 ms  217.41.168.109
  8    14 ms    15 ms    15 ms  109.159.249.236
  9    11 ms    15 ms    15 ms  core-te0-7-0-6.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.249.147]
 10    33 ms    36 ms    25 ms  host213-121-193-109.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.193.109]
 11    38 ms    35 ms    19 ms  lndgw2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.124]
 12    11 ms    11 ms    11 ms  85.205.116.2
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14     *        *        *     Request timed out.

and continues.....

 30     *        *        *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

Any help,ideas will be greatfully received 

[Caedels]

Hi Gemma

Will do, however reading MANY other threads, PPoE seems to be a no go for the VSS

Please can Vodafone confirm - Example Vodafone Sure Signal and PPPOE on BT Infinity

Also can someone answer my previous question, namely

How do I make sure the following IP ranges are allowed on the router and firewall?

   212.183.133.177-179

   212.183.133.181-182

   212.183.131.128-191

I can't see where to enter these on the BT Home Hub v5 admin pages

Thanks

[Caedels]

Ooops - Wrong Link

Should be this one eForum Thread Link

George

[Retired-James]

Hi Caedels,

Although the Sure Signal is designed to for a PPPoA connection, most routers have an inbuilt bridge to connect PPPoE to PPPoA which means it will work with the Sure Signal.

In regards to the IP ranges, not all routers require this as most of the time you simply open the ports rather than allowing a specific IP range to pass through the ports.

James

[Caedels]

Thanks James
Been talking with your techies (Jay) and we did a remote connect. Using "ping -n 100 -f -l 1492 85.205.116.6" we received the "Packet needs to be fragmented but DF not set" message, indicating the buffer size was to high (read buffer size = MTU, which in the command line above is the 1492). Through experimentation it was found that an MTU of 1460 would work without issue. However it is tated throughout this forum that the VSS requires an MTU of 1500 or thereabouts (Note that for PPoE, the max MTU should be no more than 1492 to allow space for the 8 byte PPPoE "wrapper")

So now we know the issue, but how to fix

On the Home Hub 5 I can see no method to set the MTU, so phoned BT. After 45 mins talking to various lost souls, some guy said that he had now updated my hub (how...... I have no idea, and he wouldn't tell me) and that it would take a max of two hours for the setting to take effect.

Now  - at least three hours later, the problem still persists

Running ping -n 100 -f -l 1492 85.205.116.6 still fails, and ping -n 100 -f -l 1460 85.205.116.6 is still the highest buffer size that will function correctly.

Note that in the command line below, the -l  is a lowercase L and that the IP address 85.205.116.6 is an actual server in the Vodafone cluster

Ping Results using "ping -n 5 -f -l 1460 85.205.116.6"

Pinging 85.205.116.6 with 1460 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1460 time=13ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1460 time=14ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1460 time=13ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1460 time=13ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1460 time=13ms TTL=243

Ping statistics for 85.205.116.6:
    Packets: Sent = 5, Received = 5, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 14ms, Average = 13ms

and using "ping -n 100 -f -l 1492 85.205.116.6" gives

Pinging 85.205.116.6 with 1492 bytes of data&colon;
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Ping statistics for 85.205.116.6:
    Packets: Sent = 5, Received = 0, Lost = 5 (100% loss)

So....Does anyone know if there is a "hidden" menu for setting such things on the home hub 5?
Is the MTU set at the Exchange on BT Infinity because the diagnosis is that the packets are getting through to VF from my SureSignal, it's just that the return packets are too large and somewhere on the return journey, they are being fragmented. Has anyone been able to resolve this and if so, how?

HELP !

George

[tpolm]

I think this is the first time someones actually tried hard to really troubleshoot the problem and all this effort provided by an end-user.

Forum people take note!

Luckily I'm not using a homehub - I'll change my mtu setting on my Asus ac66u router and report back!

Kudos to you buddy!

[Retired-Dave]

Hi Cadaels,

We advise that 1500 is ideal, but as you say, you shouldn't see much of a difference if your setting's a little lower than that.

We don't have the information on how to manage specific routers. There's just too wide a range for us to have it all to hand.

Usually the manufacturer or provider would be the best source for this. I'd check the web to see if they've got the details listed on their site.

As they've updated things, reset the Sure Signal again for me. I'd also reboot the router for good measure.

Dave

[Caedels]

Thanks Dave

Have tried another router (TP-LINK WDR4300) connected through the Openreach modem - now I can adjust the MTU. With MTU set to max allowed (1492), when I ping -n 100 -f -l 1464 85.205.116.6 I get a reply!

Note that it fails with the buffer set at 1465

Pinging 85.205.116.6 with 1464 bytes of data&colon;
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1464 time=15ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1464 time=15ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1464 time=15ms TTL=243
Reply from 85.205.116.6: bytes=1464 time=15ms TTL=243

and repeated.....

Ping statistics for 85.205.116.6:
    Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 14ms

I have been reliably informed that data packets on PPoE have an 8bit wrapper PLUS a 28bit protocol overhead which means that with a max MTU setting of 1500 less the 8, less the 28,  gives a size of 1464.

Current settings

External IP: 31.48.74.77

Speed: Down @ 62.25Mbps and Up @15.10Mbps

TRACERT is good

So now the questions

1: Is this to small a size for a SureSignal to recieve the "Your connection has been accepted" packet 

2: Does anyone have a SureSignal running through BT Infinity 2 that connects without issue. If there is, what is your MTU setting?

Both router and then VSS1 have been reset, however there is still no success at the Sure Signal...So far (it's cycling through its setup and connect routine as normal for the third or fourth time) 

All thoughts, ideas etc gratefully welcomed
PS: SureSignal is no good as a doorstop - not enough weight......

George

[Caedels]

Further to previous post(s)

With regard to MTU settings, discovered this on the Microsoft Community Support LINK

For PPoE, take the maximum packet size from the ping test and add 28. You add 28 bytes because 20 bytes are reserved for the IP header and 8 bytes must be allocated for the ICMP Echo Request header. Remember: You must add 28 to your results from the ping test!

An example:

1440 Max packet size from Ping Test

+ 28 IP and ICMP headers

1468 Your optimum MTU Setting

In my case, the maximum packet size is 1464, therefore the optimal MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) is 1464+28=1492. Here 1464 is the packet size of the data sent but the MTU is 1492.

Hope that helps somebody 🙂

George

[Caedels]

So now another oddity

If i connect the HH5 via the Openreach modem (the white box), the ping to vodafone is successful with a buffer size of 1464, however if I connect directly through to the Main socket using the modem in the HH5, I can only achieve 1460

So it would appear that the HH5 modem is actually a limiting factor (or at least part of the problem)

Either way the VSS1 faisl to complete it setup and connect

[Retired-Dave]

Hi Caedels,

We've seen plenty of BT Home Hub 5 customers saying that they can connect successfully, and I can see that your Sure Signal connected earlier today.

It may be the issue of the packets is masking an issue with the Sure Signal box causing it to drop any successful connection. To check this, try the Sure Signal on a different internet connection, such as a friend's or relative's.

If the box gets and maintains a connection there, we know that it is still working normally.

Also, post the latest traceroute with and without the Openreach modem for me for comparison.

Dave