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High FEC Corrections and CRC errors on upstream

2: Seeker

Just go on the live chat and ask for the login and password and they give it to you there and then! I dont know what router you have spare but if its from a previous isp it may not be as good as a shop bought one and I know bt are definitely locked and possibly others.

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2: Seeker

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the PM - however there was no link embedded with the 'click here' option.

Thanks

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5: Helper

I do wonder if this is as has been suggested a VF router issue and is actually much bigger than has been discussed on this post, I wonder how many users have any idea how to / or need to / or bother to log on to the router management and look at such parameters as FEC & CRC.

 

I moved to VF 2 weeks ago and have fairly patiently waited for my service to settle down, I can't say it's as bad as some on this forum report, the speed (38Mbps service) shown has varied up and down but currently is 39994 / 9999, the link has changed from Fast path to Interleaved, and the Upstream FEC's continue to clock, currently climbing at about 100,000 every couple of seconds.

 

The link has reset a few times but I've assumed this is VF automated equipment making adjustments, but the FEC's are still clocking, perhaps surprisingly the CRC's are low, currently Downstream FEC 773, CRC 92 and Upstream FEC 1391403689 CRC 675, PPP uptime 1 day 42 minutes

 

I'm currently running firmware 5.4.8.1.291.1.30.1.29 and have checked for updates (reports I'm running latest).

 

So perhaps the questions to VF should be :-

Do you have a real world setup running which you monitor and can confirm your router is not suffering these FEC issues.

Do you have any means by which you can interrogate & record errors remotely (from many users) which you then technically assess.

Do you have any other approved routers which you are willing to send out to participants in this forum to see if they perform better than their current unit.

 

I'm sure we would all welcome an update on what VF are doing to investigate the issue of High FEC's.

 

Thankyou

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2: Seeker

An update on where I am ...

VF sent me a new router but this did not fix the problem - same high number of FEC errors on upload.

After I notified them that the new router did not fix the error, VF arranged for another (3rd) OpenReach engineer to investigate the problem. He didn't come to the property this time but checked something at the cabinet. I already told VF about the high FEC errors but I think the ignored me and said there must be a line error. If that was the case then why didn't the 1st 2 OpenReach engineers find the problem?

Anyway, after the 3rd engineer did something at the cabinet, my connection was at 37.6/10. He did NOT reset any connection. Errors seemed fine too. Next day, 37.5/10 connection.

However, now at 33.3/9.7.

SNR margin previously kept on increasing from a starting point of 6 to round about 10 but, since the last engineer's visit, it varies between 6 and 6.4, never goes above that.

However, the FEC upstream errors are back with a vengeance.

Last night I looked they were at 3.1 BILLION, yes, 3,100 MILLION and increasing at around 150,000 per second.

This morning the errors are sitting at 1.3 BILLION so I'm guessing the router reset the count overnight but did NOT reset the router (PPP session uptime and Uptime since last reboot are at 2 days and 3 hours). The errors are currently increasing at a rate of 175,000 per second.

So, there are several differences here - it seems that high FEC errors do NOT reboot/reset the router. But why did my speed drop from 37 to 33 if there was no problem with the line? Remember, I was previously on 49Mb with BT, no problem. Finally, why is the SNR margin not increasing this time around, when it did before?

I do not see why VF customers should have to buy their own router to fix connection issues. I'm not even convinced that a different router would solve my problem, but the replacement router VF sent me did NOT fix the issue.

I think VF should send us a different router for free. How much would it cost? Not that much compared to continually calling out OpenReach engineers.

Come on VF, sort it out ASAP or I will have no alternative to ditch your service in favour of a more reliable ISP.

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2: Seeker

I had crc errors increasing by thousands every second and put on interleaved. Bought a router and only getting 5 or 6 a DAY was back on fastpath within a few days. Its not just vodafone routers other isp routers are just as bad. My friend is with talktalk and there router is as bad if not worse than vodafones!

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5: Helper

Thanks for that info, could you share with us some details of router, perhaps VF could then trial it.

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10: Established

It's likely the firmware that's the issue.  That's why no matter how many replacement routers are sent out, the issue will persist.  The only current option is to use your own router.

I'm sure most people won't notice any difference.  FEC are corrected errors so it won't manifest itself as 'the internet isn't working'.  Where you will see a difference is gamers (as you'll be on interleaved rather than fastpath) and lines that are longer/less stable as the reduction in speed may be more pronounced and/or may mean disconnections.

 

Regardless, it's pretty horrendous that Vodafone still have this issue and can't seem to fix it.

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4: Newbie

Pretty much my scenario....FEC corrections on upload horrendous. Not getting guaranteed minimum speed. Router disconnecting from WAN a lot, we are up to 9 times already today.  Speed drops ridiculously in evening, lucky to get 7mps in evening via Ethernet.

 

support not helping, telling me too many WiFi  devices connected and that’s why the router keeps disconnecting, couldn’t give me an answer as to why it happens at 3 & 4 in the morning when nothing is connected.

 

Just waiting for a response to my official complaint as had this issue since 9th September when it went live. Ridiculous how something like a broadband issue can consume so much of my time but had enough now and just want out as all support do is mock me and ask me about my WiFi connections. Ok i’m not brilliantly tech minded but I know the basics and it’s just insulting every time. 

 

Getting the board games out tonight as no doubt we won’t be able to stream Netflix later 😔

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3: Seeker

My understanding is that between 3-4 in the morning, DLM will make a decision whether or not to adapt your line, so that could be a contributory factor, but no, not a chance the number of WiFi connections will make a difference as it’s different bits of the hardware that control WiFi vs those that control the VDSL. If they’re saying that it does... then it’s very sloppy coding indeed and an admission there’s a problem with the router. 

What ive noticed is that the FECs on the up seem to climb very high, and then just before it collapses, the CRCs start going up. This is only anecdotal however because I never know when it’s going to go. Sometimes I get days, sometimes hours. VF don’t pay for call outs if openreach can make a line better after it falls below the minimum allowed speed, so it’s not a cost to them. I wonder how long it’ll be before someone from openreach reads this forum and starts to wonder where all their engineers time is going at zero cost.. or perhaps, how long it’ll be until someone informs openreach and pressure is put on the developers. 

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2: Seeker

Having the same trouble as everyone else.

From what I can fathom there are 2 problems - drop outs and slow speed. The 1st problem being an issue with the VF router; this I believe to be causing the drop outs (of which I'm getting at least twice an hour, both wired and wireless devices - even when on the managemnet page of the router ironically).

The 2nd problem being below min guarenteed internet speeds. I'm on the 74Mb package and got a mean average of 58.6Mbps across 5 individual tests on speedtest.net. My min guarenteed should be 63Mbps. I believe this is due to the errors (FEC) generated by the router resulting in a forced change to my link type to interleaved path instead of fast path by BT. This again I believe to be caused by a software problem with the router.

I managed to get escalated to VF's tech 2 team - who never contacted me - at all!

So in summery I believe the problem to be with the router and like others here I feel VF should be providing alternative (not replacement) routers of the same spec free of charge. Vodafone - please can you make this happen?

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4: Newbie

My guaranteed is supposed to be 73 and now they are back tracking saying it was an error and now my minimum guaranteed is 41, currently sync speed is 38, dropped down from 50 last night!  I think it’s got to be something with router as apparently no problem with line, open reach came out fitted a new filtered faceplate, reset line and I was getting 58 on fast path and bam within a day interleaving back, speed drop and router disconnecting from WAN, it’s actually getting worse as the days go on.....but nope apparently I have two many devices connected, the grand total of five and hardly at anyone time 😂😩

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4: Newbie

Oh forgot to add when chatting to support I mentioned about interleaving path as opposed to fast path and his answer was ‘that is Open Reach talk ....let’s see what devices you have connected via WiFi. I will talk you through logging into the router page’

##~## I know how to access the router management, probably logging in 50 times a day! How else would I be giving the statistics!!

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5: Helper

Interesting this topic, should we ask the question - Upstream FEC errors, how / where are these measured / recorded

 

Now as we have all seen our VF routers are recording large numbers of Upstream FEC's but where have the errors been 'seen', have these errors been detected at the exchange (or fibre cabinet) equipment and then a packet is sent back to our router which then clocks up the FEC's figure, or are these errors actually our router correcting incoming packets and recording that locally. Logic says the former but it's been suggested it may be line noise then surely the faster we transmit data the more errors would be generated so I would expect the Downstream FEC's to be more than the Upstream FEC's

 

So what equipment is owned by who, we know that most local lines were installed by BT (or their contractors), as far as I can assertain the Fibre Cabinets equipment and the fibre from Exchange to Cabinets is BT (I'm ignoring Virgin & other fibre to premises networks) 

 

Now more interestingly Huawei & ZTE are (or were) the suppliers of the Fibre equipment to BT and VF routers are Huawei, I wonder if this has anything to do with the issues

 

Perhaps we should start a post (so we can keep for reference) with a list of routers which are successfully working on the VF fibre service - BTW please post exact model - I'm happy to copy / paste info into a holdng post.

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2: Seeker

Sounds like a plan. It's a real issue and it's being ignored, contacting vodafone support is hopeless. I'm wondering if I just record it all, send it in a letter to Vodafone I can then just leave my contract early if it's not then promptly dealt with. That seems to be what my contract says?....

 

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5: Helper

More mysterious happenings - Possibly seen & posted by Frugal

 

So this morning Upstream FEC's 68551001 CRC's 753, but yeterday FEC's were in the billions, PPP uptime has continued to clock so no dropouts or resets. Been through the event log and no surprises.

Anyone know if there's a max to the counters so that they reset to zero (I say reset because if the router just had a counter max even though the FEC's might clock over the top, the CRC's would carry on increasing as I doubt that maxed out).

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5: Helper

Report for this morning, no resets or 'over the top' counter, no speed changes, will keep an eye on it. Only interesting log entries are overnight something caused the WLAN to disable 4 times for 3 or 4 secs each time.

 

PPP uptime 3days 1min

Downstream FEC's 2119, CRC's 247

Upstream FEC's 3241405577, CRC's 936

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4: Newbie

Ok so weirdly no drop outs for last 17 hours, however very odd system entries on log. Current speed download 38 and upload nearly at 6 which is not my guaranteed but seems stable. FEC corrections climbing 50 per 20 seconds or so........

 

Just updated router firmware and now router keeps disconnecting from WAN, pp has now so far been up for 5 minutes and i’ve hit 8 million FEC corrections on upload and unusually millions of FEC corrections on download which is very odd!

 

Teenager currently kicking off because of the drop outs 😔

4: Newbie

Result after 15 minutes...let’s see how long until the next drop out

5: Helper

Got a V21 modem I could lend you 300Bps if that would keep youe teenager happy 

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4: Newbie

Well it stayed connected for 30 mins, back on and over 4 millions corrections within a minute.

Edit - it’s gone off again arghhh