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Network queries

Strict NAT 3 type on 4g gigacube

Ash194
5: Helper

Hi all,

 

I have had a reply from Ofcom which I have provided the link for since Vodafone won't let me copy it into this forum. Essentially there is not a lot they can do since mobile broadband is not very regulated which in my view demonstrates why Vodafone have felt very comfortable with allowing this NAT issue to drag on for so long. It also seems a forum such as this can't be used to demonstrate an unresolved issue. Having said that there are links in the Ofcom email detailing How to at least try and get a complaint going 

Ofcom_response 

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james948
2: Seeker

Frustrating. 

 

I think the first thing is to go the official VF complaint root before offcom/ombudsman. 

Then you have to receive an official reply from them which you can then appeal and THEN It can go to offcom. That's what I was told by VF anyway. 

 

Meanwhile, I think you should persist. 

 

Here are the arguments VF gave me: 

  • VF: Did you ASK whether it could specifically do online gaming when you purchased the Gigacube?
    ME: No, but neither did I ask specifically whether it could "do" email. It's a reasonable assumption that one of the basic functions of something described as being a replacement for home broadband would be online gaming. 
  • VF: It does state in the terms and conditions that it is unable to do online gaming. 
    ME: No it does not. 
  • VF: You're under contract for another n months.
    ME: Vodafone has already broken the contract by not fulfulling their promise of providing an alternative to home broadband. 
  • VF: You had the 14 days to return it and you didn't.
    ME: That 14 day is for me to return it to you without having to provide a reason; if I fail to return it during that time it does not mean that Vodafone is exempt from fulfulling their part of the deal. 

I think that covers all of the arguments though there may have been a few more. The one that really annoyed me was the lady that claimed it stated in the terms and conditions that it didn't do gaming and then, while I checked and discovered that it wasn't, she put me through to another department. 

 

The people you want to speak to are the Directors Office in Customer Relations. 

 

Don't give up until you've spoken to them. 

 

I expect a lot of people are discovering how restrictive their NAT is now that we're on lockdown so they may be well versed. 

 

Of note; they offered me a reduction of £70 before I told them that wasn't acceptable and they offered to cancel the contract. 

 

Godspeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Xopher
2: Seeker

I found a solution to change my Nintendo Switch from Nat type D to Nat type B using Vodafone GigaCube.

 

WARNING: This is expensive and laborious.

 

You will need:

- a Mac

- an Ethernet cable 

- a VPN

 

The principle is to create a VPN router using your Mac's personal hotspot that bypasses all of the restrictions imposed by Vodafone.

 

Step 1. Purchase a VPN. I used ExpressVPN (other VPNs are available).

 

Step 2. Connect your Mac directly to the GigaCube using an Ethernet cable. My router is in the attic and my iMac is on the ground floor. I have run a 10m Ethernet cable through the wall (!!)

 

Step 3. Set up a new WiFi access point on your iMac (your VPN provider will provide you explicit instructions on how to do this). Note the new network name and password.

 

Step 4. Connect your console to the WiFi hotspot on your Mac. Et voila... a £100 workaround if you have a Mac and a £1300 one if you don't.

 

This really works. I hope this helps somebody. I'm sure there is probably an equivalent procedure for PC users.

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CartoonHead
4: Newbie

You can do this with pc i game on pc and there is a easy method for me which gives me open Nat but it's costly wtfast is a gpn so it doesn't change your IP address but it does give lowest ping and open port for games I can also share the connection with PS4 or Xbox and get some game to open nat 

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

I have had the same issue, except that I have my own Huawei B2338-168 4G router and a SIM only unlimited contract (because it's half the price FYI. You can buy the 4g gigcube from Vodafone outright for £150 I believe and then pay for SIM only unlimited and save hundreds). You can bet that this issue stems from the surf protection service, I've even had cases where I'll suddenly find the filtering being re-applied to the connection. It's still not enabled in the portal and a quick reconnect fixes it, that seems to indicate that everyone goes through the filtering but that nothing is applied if you disable it.

 

I have been testing VPNs with the Xbox live connection and found mixed results, some work and some don't. Most give you a "Moderate" status, my daughter has been using it for a few weeks without any issues. I'd suggest looking at SurfShark (use code "boss" to get further discounts and extra time on 2 year sub) and basically test it well within their full refund period. It's by far the cheapest I've found if you commit (only £1.50 per month for 25 months with that code) to the longer period.

 

As people mentioned above, going through another network will cause your ping to suffer (because there's more hops before your destination) but the 4G ping is generally pretty significant (compared to a fixed line) so if you were worried about that then you bought the wrong type of internet anyway! FYI 5G pings should be MUCH lower, so if you're worried just wait for the price/availability of 5G to mature a bit and then go for that. 

 

Luckily for me it's not an issue, my modem isn't network locked so I'll just switch to a network without a filtering service. TBH the SurfShark one is so cheap that I don't really need to bother.

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Ash194
5: Helper

Final straw going to start my campaign of trying to get out of my contract. Looking forward to all the ##~## I’m going to have to deal with.Final straw going to start my campaign of trying to get out of my contract. Looking forward to all the ##~## I’m going to have to deal with.

[MOD EDIT: This post has been edited to remove inappropriate content please see Community Guidelines]

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Pubgrundy
2: Seeker

You say that, but my gigacube 5g had about 45-80ms ping whereas my phone's 4g (also voda) gets on average 25-35ms.

I remember reading 5g should get to single digit ping... Clearly a pile of bull, that or the router is slow as hell.

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CartoonHead
4: Newbie

Don't know where you are located but Manchester 5g is 15-25ms ping I get a good 180mbs if it wasn't for Nat issues it has completely replaced my home network 

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

The 5G vs 4G ping difference is same network, same hardware, same distance. You could NEVER compare 2 different devices, they have totally different hardware so they will always be different... because they are. Different devies will have different chipsets (some chipsets will have the same max speed but just aren't as efficient) and speed ratiings (this is what cat XX means, that the modem meets a certain minimum speed specification). You also need to use the same speed testing tool and server (I use speedtest.net and Vodafone bracknell server every time). Also, if the device you're testing is on wifi then you'll have to bear in mind that this will further add to the ping. Whereas a phone on 4G will be directly communicating with the network., plus higher end phones will often have crazy category chipsets in them. Even a 5G phone directly next to your router still would give you a different result, there are too many variables.

 

My router is only cat 12, but my Google phone is cat 18 so the ping and plus total download are, and always will be, totally diferent. My router is professional grade and it has an external high gain antenna so it is almost certainly that my 4G ping is so much lower because of this. My upload on my phone is averaging 100mbps down and 5mbps (standing under the antenna) and my router does 80mbps down and 50mbps up. Also, the pings are completetly different and vary slightly every time.

The reason 5G will ping faster (in exactly the same circumstances is simply that it's a higher frequency). That also means it's effective range is a lot less, so if you're far from the mast it's really hard to say how it would perform. It's also got a lot less object penetration ability, so having a router indoors is a killer. If I stand just inside my patio door with my phone and test the speed, I get half the speed and a higher ping when the door is closed (and all other doors and windows are closed too) and that's with 4G. It'll be even worse with 5G, see if you have connections for an external antenna as it should really improve the overall experience.

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Tap82
2: Seeker

cabal5935, unless Pubgrundy's post has been removed i can not see how he was 'blasting' your comments, my reason for being on this thred is to see what (if anything) vodafone are doing about the NAT issue, advertising the network as great for gaming is wrong, unless they fix the issue we are having. 

i have not chosen the wrong type of internet as far as it is the ONLY choice i have, BT landline runs at 0.8Mbps in my area. 

i have a 3mobile SIM in a Huawei B525 router that has an open NAT and play COD and GTA with no issues. It runs at around 8-12Mbps with a ping of 50-60ms, but vodafone runs at 25-28Mbps with a ping of 32ms and i will change to vodafone for the better speeds if they get this problem sorted out.

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Ash194
5: Helper

As other have pointed out there are many factors affecting a ping. I am near Salford quays and get the same sort of results as Cartoonhead. Don't forget being on an FDD cell or TDD cell with 4G can also make quite a difference. The large US carrier I used to work for tried to avoid TDD if at all possible because of the lag the time division caused. Also things like poor fibre readings going up to the rrus, condition of coaxial jumper cables poor weather proofing etc can all have various impacts on performance.

As far as trying to get out of my contract for this shocking NAT issue I got the typical long wait followed by some ##~## trying to get me to add my PS4 into the DMZ references to this forum and it being a known issue naturally fell on deaf ears, will try again tomorrow.
[MOD EDIT: This post has been edited to remove inappropriate content please see Community Guidelines]

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

I'm not aware of any specific claims by Vodafone now or in the past, I tend to ignore adertising entirely anyway and try to establish fact by testing. I'm as annoyed as you are about Vodafone blocking the Peer to peer gaming connections, but it wasn't something that governed my decsision. This article is when I realised that it was network related, and not my hardware.

 

With regards to my wrong kind of internet for gaming, yes indeed in your case I would have done the same. If that's all you have then go with it. I don't think Vodafone will change this unless/until the 4g/5g home internet grows in popularity and they're forced to. If this sector grows then you'd expect OFCOM to start regulating it at some point, seen as it's purpose is to protect/represent the consumer, and then consumers can lodge complaints to force action. But, as you've said, there are other networks that don't filter this. So if 3 continuee to give you an acceptable speed and no filtering then go for it. When my contract ends, I'll entertain the other networks too.

 

I can understand your frustration if you're paying £50+ per month and you've found that this is now driving you to having to purchase a VPN to get you through. If it were me, I'd be pressuring Vodafone to let me out or give me some kind of monthly cost reduction to pay for a VPN. Considering how much extra they're loading on these subscrioptions, they could take a little financial hit for the sake of customer satisfaction in my opinion.

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Ash194
5: Helper

I think if you scroll up enough you might see some feedback from Vodafone on this thread. They have not bothered to respond to this thread in a long time now, I suspect they are hoping we will all give up, stop posting then they will close this thread which has a staggering amount of views now. 

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Pubgrundy
2: Seeker

Yo Cabal, How on earth was my comment rude or in any way offensive?

 

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

My applogies, I must have misread it. Will amend my post.

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

Ash194, I know but if they're still making money then it won't ulimately concren them too much. This sector does appear to be growing, so more and more people will be discovering this issue and maybe they will act before it's regulated. You can live in hope right. That is why the regulators are useful.

 

I've not phoned them directly about this issue yet, could see if I can get a straight answer from someone technical. It's very hard to get past the customer services firewall these days, you end up stuck talking someone who doesn't have any understanding or power to take action. They say they'll pass on concerns but do they really?! I'm not even sure that some of the agents could articulate the technical nature of the issue enough for anyone technical to realise they have an significant issue with the service. I can try though. 

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Ash194
5: Helper

Your quite right the people you speak to are not technical at all. They are very good at reading scripts and acting. I suspect that Vodafone recruits some of these people directly from the stage. You could turn some of these calls into a musical. I'm so sorry to hear that lalalala im so sorry so sorry lalala, don't worry don't worry, I'm gonna help you now lalalala 😀 coz everything's gonna be ok, I will guide you sir lalalala 🙂 buttt immm gonna, Transfer you now! Lalala 

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cabal5935
2: Seeker

Haha totally, some more than others. Well I made my calls last night, it took me a few times to get past "Tobi" without her hanging up on me and sending an SMS with a link ##~##. So I found that if you press 9 for lost/stolen but then don't enter your pin she puts you through to a human, from there to another human at least. Couple of dismissive tech guys later I came accross one who at least seems to recognise that I wasn't some moron who forgot to turn their console on. I think the issue is they get people like my Mum calling them all day and they get used to people not having a clue, I guess after hndreds or thousands of calls they just stop actually listening.

 

Either way, the guy I spoke to has accepted that there is an issue and has raised it to the next level. I'm meant to hear back today or tomorrow, hopefully there is some kind of solution... if not at least a technical answer. I'd ideally like them to accept that it's the network and say when they plan to try and resolve it, or tell me that there is no plan to fix it. Luckily for me it's not a huge deal, the VPN on my daughter's PC is still working great. She's not had a signle issue connecting peer to peer. Being locked down, she's been spending most of the day playing so it looks like that might be the answer for people who are stuck in contract. Getting a console via a VPN is a pain in the ##~## though. We'll see... I'm hopefully atm, waiting to see if they get crushed like a bug.

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Ash194
5: Helper

Thanks for the reply please keep us posted. I notice still not a single response from Vodafone on here regarding this. They are clearly deliberately ignoring this thread.

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JShezza
2: Seeker

Is there any update on this issue @TJ

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