Anyone else affected by Vodafone disabling demon.co.uk emails after May 2020

[Adtadt]

Vodafone own the domain demon.co.uk which I've used for my email address since the mid 1990's...

... when they purchased the company that owned it they didn't want to continue with the domain name. For the last 5 years or so they leased the domain to names.co.uk who have taken on my emails.

Today I was advised by names.co.uk that Vodafone will no longer lease the domain to anyone or use it themselves. So during the current virus pandemic I face losing my email address from the end of May 2020. While I can change my email address I will obviously face losing access to some services, companies and friends that I miss. Further, some websites etc don't make it easy to change.

Anyone got any ideas...?

[SRatVP]

PP  the demon ADSL terms and conditions also has the same clause.

[Chopperpilot]

 I have just been told by Vodaphone that if I renew my contract then the Demon email address WILL remain active but this surely is not the case?

[Adtadt]

Thanks again, SRAtVP,

... well done for retaining all your emails and items like the terms & conditions. It seems to confirm that Vodafone recently focused on the ‘temporary service’ that was extended for free email users. I found reference to the paid service after their early 2015 60 day free extension, as you state this paid for service never referenced it was temporary. While I guess any T&Cs can be disputed, it certainly adds to our complaints...

All forum readers, I suggest we all reference the useful items now posted above as updates to any complaints we’ve made - including to Vodafone’s CEO feedback, Ofcom, Trading Standards, Which etc... Ideally, using a formal legal approach would help, however, this is a complex issue and unless we can get an organisation to take it up it could become expensive.

I really hope Vodafone might favourably reconsider, hence, this is the approach I’m taking - unless anyone has a better idea?

[Prestel_Person]

Received the following from Vodafone today. First substantive response to my complaint of 12th April (I sent them a reminder on 27th April).

 .....................Thank you for patience whilst we have been looking into your concerns raised surrounding the closure of your email domain. I apologise that you have not heard from us sooner, your case file has only just been added into my workstream.
 
I am pleased to let you know that I have received confirmation that we have agreed with Namesco to extend their lease of the 'demon.co.uk' to September 1st 2020. If you're able to confirm to me that you are still wanting extended use of the domain, I will pass your details onto Namesco to have them reach out to you and arrange the extension. This would allow you time to update your contacts with your new details.
 
I apologise that this may not be the news you wanted to hear however I hope it is an acceptable alternative. The reason that we are not selling the licence to Namesco is to keep in line with our closure of the Demon platform as a whole, means that it is no longer appropriate to provide a license to a third party for the Demon Domain name. 

Rylee Scott

Customer Relations

Vodafone Limited

No change of mind from Vodafone on the 'closure of the Demon platform'  then, but confirmation of an offer of a stay of execution until 1st September 2020. NB this stay of execution is conditional on me informing Rylee Scott that I wish to have 'extended use of the domain' - a service I already enjoy and pay for by annual subscription through a third party (Namesco).

A heads up to other ex Demon/Prestel people:- the clear implication is that the original end of May termination of service will apply unless you notify Vodafone that you wish to extend to 1st September. Vodafone will then get Namesco to 'reach out' to you.

From a consumer rights angle this whole process seems to get more and more dubious.

If we tell Vodafone that we want an extension to 1st September that could be taken as implying that we accept the closure after that date.

Personally, I am now considering how best to protect my position with Vodafone and Namesco with the aim of preserving my email identities as long as possible, whilst at the same time still trying to persuade Vodafone to reconsider its decision on the Demon platform.

As far as I know, Vodafone has not really explained why it made this decision on Demon. Business is Business, as they say, but as ex Demon/Prestel customers we are the ones suffering.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

[eng_777]

Following on from Prestel_Person's communication from Vodafone, this afternoon my MP received this reply to his query:

"In 2016, Demon users were notified that the email service would no longer be provided by Vodafone. Customers who wanted to retain the Demon.co.uk became customers of Namesco. We have now nearly completed the migration of Demon customers, and the next step is to begin decommissioning the IT infrastructure. This means we’re switching off the Demon platform, including the name servers which handle the Demon domains.

Switching off the Demon internet platform, including the name servers, means that it is no longer appropriate to provide a license to Namesco (or any other third party). The license for the email domain would – in effect – be useless without the entire Demon platform in operation. Namesco has been responsible for managing the migration of its users away from the service for some time, and certainly should have informed its users earlier of the impending closure of the domain name.

We know this has come at an extremely difficult time, when people are more reliant than ever on digital communications. Therefore we have provided an extension of the license to Namesco, meaning Demon.co.uk users now have until 1 September to migrate to a new email address. While we recognise this is still not ideal, we hope it will people some time in which to update their contact details with friends, family and important accounts. We would be grateful if you could ask any affected constituents to get in touch with us, or Namesco, directly to ensure they receive the extension."

I think there are a few points here. One is that Vodafone are still attempting to imply that everyone knew this was a temporary situation re. us keeping our Demon email addresses whereas we have ample proof from the emails etc. at the time that this was not the case.

Secondly there is the nonsense that you can't use the domain name separately from the physical Demon servers, this clip from Accu web hosting took me exactly 5 seconds to find:

"A DOMAIN ALIAS IS LIKE HAVING MULTIPLE FRONT DOORS TO ONE LOCATION

Basically you can have two or more domain names that take you to a single site. Domain aliasing allows you to host a Web site on one domain and point other domain names to the site. It is also called domain name pointer to root or domain stacking.

When two or more domain names refer to the same account, it is called domain aliasing. Each domain name carries through the website in the address bar, so each domain name looks like the real domain name for the site.

When you set up a web hosting account, it is set up for one domain name. You can purchase a second domain name and point it to the IP address for the first domain name.

Domain aliasing is creating additional domain names that would point to the IP of a different domain. For example, if your domain name is test.com, you can register another domain name, e.g. test.net and have it point to the location of test.com. This means, every Internet user who goes to test.net will land in test.com.

A domain alias may have:

• its own DNS zone;
• custom DNS records;
• separate mail service.

Domain Aliases have all the properties of a regular domain hosting account in terms of DNS and mail. The only difference is that the Domain Alias has no files (web pages) of its own. Instead it uses the files of the aliased domain name.

With a Domain Alias, the URL in the address bar of the users browser stays exactly as they typed it and would take a visitor to the exact same pages of your original domain.

Any e-mail messages sent to e-mailboxes under one of your domain aliases will also be automatically re-directed to the e-mailbox under your primary domain. All mail for test.net is treated as if it was actually addressed to test.com."

My highlighting in green. Some further Googling confirms that sub domains, as in *.demon.co.uk, are handled in the same way. Yes, some management and server capacity is required, but no more than we're paying for at the moment, the issue as far as I can see is purely that Vodafone are unwilling to relinquish the Demon brand for others to use.

Finally, again we have the statement that seems to say that the extension to the 1st September has to be requested rather than being automatically applied.

[Stilt0N]

I understand why an organisation of Vodafone's size don't want to have the hassle of running the licensing etc. for the Demon domain, given the relatively small number of us that are left. However, none of their responses have explained why this necessitates closing down the domain. They could just wash their hands of it entirely by selling it to Namesco or someone else to run from now on.

I can only assume that the undisclosed motive is a financial one. Having got rid of us they would be able to dispose of the demon.co.uk domain at its full market value.

It is therefore interesting that some of the legal information posted (which I have not yet had time to read fully) suggests that we may have some kind of legal rights in the domain ourselves.

In addition, we have had our Demon services for over 20 years and I would question whether we can now simply have email access removed at such short notice and without any reasonable provision being made by Vodafone for a run-off period during which emails sent to our Demon addresses would continue to be forwarded to us. Vodafone should be making arrangements for an orderly termination of the service, on a timescale properly reflecting both the importance of email in everyone's daily lives now and the length of time we have been using/paying for these Demon addresses.

[johnpearson2]

All

I have now had a response from my MP's office :

 
We know the withdrawal has come at an unfortunate time for Demon users, which is why we are now extending the license to Namesco until 1 September to give users more time to migrate to a new address. We hope this is helpful – please see below for more information.

In 2016, Demon users were notified that the email service would no longer be provided by Vodafone. Customers who wanted to retain the Demon.co.ukhttp://Demon.co.uk became customers of Namesco. We have now nearly completed the migration of Demon customers, and the next step is to begin decommissioning the IT infrastructure. This means we’re switching off the Demon platform, including the name servers which handle the Demon domains.

Switching off the Demon internet platform, including the name servers, means that it is no longer appropriate to provide a license to Namesco (or any other third party). The license for the email domain would – in effect – be useless without the entire Demon platform in operation. Namesco has been responsible for managing the migration of its users away from the service for some time, and certainly should have informed its users earlier of the impending closure of the domain name.

We know this has come at an extremely difficult time, when people are more reliant than ever on digital communications. Therefore we have provided an extension of the license to Namesco, meaning Demon.co.ukhttp://Demon.co.uk users now have until 1 September to migrate to a new email address. While we recognise this is still not ideal, we hope it will people some time in which to update their contact details with friends, family and important accounts. We would be grateful if you could ask any affected constituents to get in touch with us, or Namesco, directly to ensure they receive the extension.

Sent by Thomas Leighton, Government Affairs Manager.

The generosity of the extension is astounding, I feel we should be asking for an extension until September 2021, at least as a forwarding service for annual renewals etc.

I feel that although we may have a legal case, we will not have the financial muscle to compete with Vodafone and our best policy would be to 'name and shame' Vodafone into providing an acceptable process to close down our email addresses.

Again, I see it as an inevitability that Demon will close - they could just price us out of the market to continue services to drive us out

It has been my main address for over 25 years and the process of contact notification is time consuming and painful - curtesy of Vodafone. The least we should expect is their help and support. 

[Stilt0N]

I have looked further into the contractual position. In general, English contract law applies to co.uk domains. The Demon and subsequently Thus contract terms, as kindly posted by SRatVP, state "you are the registered owner of your domain name for the service and can transfer it upon termination of this agreement to another Internet provider".

When Vodafone acquired Thus, and took over the demon.co.uk domain, it became subject to our preexisting legal rights arising from the old contract terms. As Vodafone are now seeking to terminate the contractual arrangement with us, the above contractual provision would appear to apply. 

I suggest that we formally request Vodafone to transfer the demon.co.uk domain to a nominee of our choice (which could be namesco or another).  

If they refuse to do so, or wish to charge an excessive fee for this, we are entitled to apply to Nominet, who administer the co.uk domains, to begin a dispute resolution process. Nominet's website says that making the complaint and any mediation following on from this is free.

[birman1]

Asked Namesco to confirm the change of end of service date, and got an email confirmation of the small extension to 1 September ........ after which mail to the demon.co.uk domain will be undelivered

Better than nothing and at least less of a panic

[Chopperpilot]

I have just called Namesco and they said it was definately closing the Demon email addresses on May 29th. 🤷‍♂️