New R212 MiFi Not Loading Pages On HSUPA

[ramtab]

Hi Team,

I have the new 4G Ready R212 MiFi device which switches all the time between 3G+ and HSUPA.

When on 3G+ browsing and performance is perfect, however when is switches to HSUPA I essentially lose internet connection as browsing, email refresh etc just does not happen (usually get page cannot be loaded error) - even when on 5 bars HSUPA.

Why is this and what can be done to remedy?

Thanks

[headcheese]

Hi,

Right, the wierd thing through all of this is that HSDPA, HSUPA and HSPA are all 3G+. 3G+ is just Vodafone's marketing speak for HSPA/HSUPA/HSDPA. The way their devices work is that when a device picks up an HSPA/UPA/DPA signal, instead of sdisplaying the HSPA related signal indicator it should display 3G+. It's wierd that it's not.

But I appreciate that this doesn't really help, it's just an observation.

What really needs to be worked out is if it's the device or the network at fault. This is why we people keep asking what happens in other locations and with other devices. Say, for example if you've got a smart phone displaying H or 3G+ and the R212 displaying H or 3G+, and the handset works but the R212 doesn't then you'd be looking at a device related issue. If both don't work this is more likely to be network related but could be confirmed by testing in a different location.

One other thing that might help is seeing what happens when you get a 3G signal (no H or + on the end of 3G). If this gives full connectivity then it would look to be more of a bearer (signal) related issue. The mobile network will try and serve you with the fastest signal it can, so if you're in an area that has both 3G and HSPA coverage then the network will try to serve an HSPA signal. To get a 3G only signal you'd need to be in an area where you have 3G but no HSPA. It sounds like you kind of managed to acheive this in test 4 in your previous post. Given that you got 3G+ and it worked as expected, but in other locations when HSUPA has been displayed on the device this results in you experiencing the issue it almost sounds like there are 2 types of HSPA signals. One that the device can use OK (3G+) and one that it can't (HSUPA). THis makes me think that it might well be a netowrk related issue that you face, but I think that the only way to prove this would be to compare to other devices when you experience issues.

I wouldn't worry about a sim swap. If you had an issue with your sim then you wouldn't be able to connect to GPRS/EDGE. As for error 619 mentioned in test 5, this is usually due to incorrect APN settings (which are specific to the sim in use), but it can also be caused by network related issues. Essentially RAS 619 mean scan't conenct to APN, so it can be down to the software being configured to connect to the wrong APN (i.e. one not associated with the sim), network congestion, signal strength, or the device requesting parameters the network can't serve.

As mentione dearlier in my post, it sounds like this could be network related, but it's a little tricky to say for sure. If you had an HSPA related signal on the R212, and an H related signal on a smart phone, and the smart phone works but the R212 doesn't then it could be device related, if neither work when they both have an H related signal then it's looking more like network. If you do go down this route bear in mind that not all phones are HSPA capable. You could use your K3565 in this capacity, but it would be a good plan to prove the config as correct to rule it out as the cause of error 619 that you experienced when testing.

I hope that helps, feel free to post back here if you have any questions or come up with any more test results. I'll be happy to chip in as best I can.

Cheers

HC

[headcheese]

Hi,

I borrowed an R212!

I only managed to test it in one loaction where I get 3G+/HSUPA. I'll get the chance to try another location tomorrow so may be able to shed some further light then... anyway, here's what I noticed.

The R212 always displays 3G+ on it's display

The admin interface of the R212 says HSUPA when it's disconnected, and for a couple of seconds after connecting, then it changes to 3G+.

Sometimes the admin interface will say HSUPA for more than a couple of seconds, and it seems to be data throguhput that prompts it to change to 3G+

Throughout all of theis my HTC one X was dispalying H (HSPA) as the data bearer

Web browsing wa sfully fucntional throughout all of this on both the one x and my laptop/R212

So what I think might be going on is that it's the fact that it doesn't change form HSUPA to 3G+ that may be related to the problems you're experiencing. If this change is prompted by data transfer and you're not getting any due to local issue (congestion for example) then this may cause the problem you're experiencing.

Of course this is total guesswork, but it's all I can think of given I've only managed to test in one location, I should have some more information tomorrow, but I can confirm that my the R212 works Ok when being served with an HSUPA signal.

One thing that might be handy is anyone having problems posting the information from the help>diagnostics page of the R212 interface, as this may yield some clues.

Cheers

HC

[R212brick]

Hey, an enthusiast 😄

Thanks for all your input so far and for getting hold of a test sample.

Replying to both of your most recent posts at once.

Agreed that the Vod connection terminology in use is a bit confusing, more of a marketing badge than the precise protocol in use but that is what is on the display so I'm afraid that is all we can report and from what I can see there is no more detailed info in the depths of the control panel. For info, all the connection descriptions I have been reporting are the status page rather than the device display.

Thanks for the insight into the the usb dongle error code and the elimination of a SIM problem.

I think Ramtab's most recent post may have answered your recent request to try a smartphone at the same location as  the R212 and I think he is saying that the smartphone functioned whilst on H but the R212 did not, albeit with some doubts about whether the will handle the same protocols.

In your latter post your connection experience with the R212 is going the opposite way to mine at my second test location which was an initial attempt to go 3G+ (as reported by the status page) changing to a reported HSUPA after a few seconds which proved to be a broken one whereas you are seeing HSUPA reported first followed by a change to reported 3G+ which works<?>.

There is a limit to how much location changing testing I can do but my Sunday night test was high in a city centre car park at about 6:30pm. The centre is pretty much dead at that time so I wouldn't be expecting much in the way of congegestion so perhaps limiting theories related to that. High up also meant a good signal (5 bars) reported on all tests and moving about gave me the broken HSUPA reported connection and later the working 3G+ reported connection.

Anyway, to tonight's testing from my main location:

Part 1:

Initial status page display of V UK HSUPA then V UK 3G+ with signal strength initially firm at 3 or 4 but then with the occasional drop to 2 bars. Status page display then swaps between the two about once every 30s as if it can't decide which one to connect to. Ping test 30s period shows 40-50% loss.

Part 2:

Wandered outside (hope V is appreciating this) and get a steady 4-5 bars outside. Connection still swaps periodically between HSUPA and 3G+ but with reduced frequency, at about 60s per protocol. On a whim I bump the ping frequency up to 1 per second and on the reported 3+ connection periods I am getting perfect results but on the periods of reported HSUPA conneciton I am getting total ping loss. After a few of these cycles however it stuck on HSUPA with total ping loss. Makes me wonder whether it has been swapping quickly between 3G+ and HSUPA continuously but the display update has been too slow to report it. My earlier 50-60% losses (30s period) may have been on the HSUPA broken hits and the successes on the good 3G+ phases - just a thought.

Diagnostics as requested:

Mobile Wi-Fi information
Product name  R212-Z
Software Version  BD_R212V3.1
Web UI Version  2.008.5513
Hardware Version  Ver.B(T3)
Serial Number  320131491XXX
Serial no. of SIM (ICCID)  89441000302078387XXX
SIM Number (MSISDN)  07917680XXX
Serial no. of device (IMEI)  869718000006XXX
IMSI  234159135100XXX
SIM Status  Ready
Time since startup  10 mins 22 secs

Some details obfuscated  but can be provided over a more secure channel.

Does this help any?

Good luck with your testing tomorrow and let me know if you need anything more.

Thx again,

R212

[headcheese]

Hey,

Enthusiast or nerd, I'm not really sure myself anymore

Thanks for all the further information. Although it doesn't present a solution it is helpful.

I managed to do some further testing, and here's what I noticed.

It seems to be that there's a general flickering between HSUPA and 3G+ in the web interface of the device. Even if it's idle (i.e. only data traffic between the R212 and the laptop, no ping or pages being browsed). So I think the the "round the other way" between your R212 and mine displaying 3G+ and HSUPA might just be down to timing of us accessing the web interface.

Regardless of the HSUPA/3G+ status I could browse the web without issue and I ran a ping -t to www.google.com . Out of 410 packets sent only 3 were lost. Times wrere a bit variable (ranging between 1637 and 70 Ms, although there are few entries around the 1637 length, the modal longer times are around 350), TTL was 53 throughout.

While I was doing all of this the display in the web interface was constantly switching between HSUPA and 3G+. The display on the R212 itself was always showing 3G+ and the display on the HTC One X was always showing H.

I did notice a pattern to the time values in the ping results. It seems to be the case that there's "blocks" of time values. Block type 1 usually has between 3-20 pings and entries have a time value of between 200-350+ ms. Block type 2 is usually between 3 and 10 pings and has time values of 70-90 ms. Block type 2 occurs when the R212 web dislpay shows 3G+, block type 1 is when the device display shows HSUPA. Now here's the interesting bit; The pings with really high ms values (1600 ish) AND all the packet losses occur when there's a change between HSUPA and 3G+.

When I did the tests yesterday I only had one bar of signal, but I had a full 5 bars today.

I was using the internet APN.... which APN were you using?

The diagnostics I got from the device are as follows:

Product name   R212-Z
Software Version  BD_R212V3.1
Web UI Version  2.008.5513
Hardware Version  Ver.B(T1)
Serial Number  324230480179
Serial no. of SIM (ICCID)  89441XXXX

SIM Number (MSISDN)  07XXXXXXXXX
Serial no. of device (IMEI)  866XXXXX

IMSI  23415XXXXX

SIM Status  Ready

So, unfortunately, I had to give that R212 back... but I managed to get hold of another one!

The information from the diganostics page of the new (second) R212 is as follows:

Product name   R212-Z
Software Version  BD_R212V3.1
Web UI Version  2.008.5513
Hardware Version  Ver.B(T3)
Serial Number  324230480179
Serial no. of SIM (ICCID)  89441XXXX

SIM Number (MSISDN)  07XXXXXXXXX
Serial no. of device (IMEI)  866XXXXX

IMSI  23415XXXXX

SIM Status  Ready

So this one is the same as yours as far as hardware and firmware is concerned.

I repeated the ping -t www.google.com test in the same location as I did the second test (the one I carried out today).

The only real difference I'm seeing is that the ping times are generally lower so instead of the low end being around 70 it's around 60, and instead of the higher end being around 350 they're more like 260. The ridiculously high ones (When changing between 3G+ and HSUPA) are around 1400 instead of in the 1600s. This could be down to local traffic levels, though.

Also, I didn't get ANY dropped packets and web browsing is fully fucntional.

Apart from that, everything else is the same, the 3G+/HSUPA flickering etc etc.

Sooooo... what can we tell from all this?

Not a lot, unfortunately.

Thinking out loud:

With regard to yesterday's testing, and the first testing that I did today, I was using an older version of R212 hardware than you, but apart from that everything else was the same (provided you're using the same APN) from the R212/mobile network perspective... other than the location (and therefore the cell site in use).

With the second batch of testing I did today the R212 is the same as yours from a hardware/software perspective. Everything was functional when I did the testing (in both locations and with both devices) so it's looking like this is more or a location related issue than it is a general device issue as that's the obvious factor that's differing between your set up and my second R212 set up.

I haven't experienced the same problems as you have despite trying in 2 locations and 2 R212s.

Both you and ramtab have expeirenced the same issue, and it's likely that you're both in different locations.

The display on the web ui does change. This doesn't make anything non-functional from my point of view... but from yours it does. Given the difference in ping times it does appear that something is changing as far as what's going on within the mobile network is concerned. It looks like this change works for me, but not for you. Again this is looking like something related to the network.

Given the relationship between higher ping times and HSUPA in my case and the non-functionality and ping loss when HSUPA is displayed for you, plus 3G+ giving us both full functionality it would look to be the case that this may be network related. I think this because nothing is changing from the R212's perspective (as in settings/location), but the bearer is. The bearer change is dictated by the mobile network, not the device as HSUPA/3G+ are both 3G technologies.

BUT.... no other devices are affected in this manner. So not a network related issue?

The things that I think might be worth trying (and I'm guessing that you probably already have done this) is to set the R212 to 3G only, and to try a selective start up on your PC (to rule out any background applications doing anything). In all honesty I don't think either will make any difference, but I'd like to rule these out so that the device isn't periodically checking for a 4G bearer or the ability to connect to 4G services and that there's nothing doing anything funky on your system.

That said the first R212 was set to 3G only and the second one that I used was set to 4G preferred, so I doubt this will make any difference to what you're experiencing, but it would be good to cover the bases.

I guess that we can't rule the R212 out entirely as other devices seem to function fine using HSUPA in the locations you've tried.

This is panning out to be one of those horrible IT support situations where it's a combination of factors that result in the problem.

Problems like this aren't the easiest to get addressed as the normal logic and reasning that goes with troubleshooting ends up turining into a catch 22 situation. I can imagine 2 people arguing about it:
"No other devices are affected in the locality in this manner, it must be the R212".
"But another identical device functions without issue in a different area, therefore the factor that is changing is the cell site in use, it must be this at fault"
"But surely that would affect other devices as well as the R212?"
"Then why does an identical R212 function without issue in a different location"

... and so on.

So I guess we should start looking for a difference between my set up and yours. We know the locations are different, otherwise we'd be sat next to each other scratching our heads whilst looking at the same R212 web interface... the other variables I have:
- Lenovo Thinkpad T420s
- Windows 7 enterprise 64 bit
- Intel Centrino Adavnced-N 6205 WiFI adapter on laptop
- Browsers used: IE 8, Firefox 3.6, Android stock browser Webkit/534.30 (on the HTC one X)
- Account type with Vodafone: Standard pay monthly consumer (no 4G services added to account)
- APN in use: internet

If you could let us know the equivalent information from your setup then it would be good.

As far as where we go from here goes, I guess we need to pin down a point of failure which it's still a little tricky to do.

Feel free to post anything here that you think is worth mentioning, I'm happy to see what I can do.

Cheers,

HC

[Retired-James]

Hi ramtab,

I think we need to take a look at the errors at network level to see if we can pick up the failure reason.

So that we can do this please can get in touch with the team here.

Thanks

James

[R212brick]

Hi James,

Given that Ramtab and I are experiencing the same problem do you mind if I do the same?

Were you looking for a private message addressed to you? The link supplied seems a bit generic.

Is a Vodafone account number enough for you or more?

Thx,

R212

[Retired-James]

Hi R212brick,

My apologies for not getting in touch with yourself as well.

If you can also send me your details as mentioned here, I can get this followed up for you.

James

[R212brick]

Hi All,

Info now passed to the tech team for live monitoring - thanks James.

For completeness here's a quick summary of yesterday's testing at 2 new locations:

Locations G52 4XY and G51 4JT (retail parks, no personal connection)

Both good signal (5 bars solid)

R212 started and connected before booting test laptop, device display shows connected and '3G+'

Device is set with connection options '3G only'.

Testing involved pinging out to 2 IP addresses (numeric addresses, public sites) every second with 1s timeout (or 5s if that failed) and an attempt to connect to a bbc radio site if a long term connection could be achieved. During testing the device status page (192.168.0.1) was monitored for changes.

At both locations, the reported connection on the status page alternated periodically between Vodafone UK 3G+ and Vodafone UK HSUPA.

During periods when the status page showed V UK 3G+ pings were completed successfully, mainly in v healthy 60 - 120ms range.

During periods when the status page showed V UK HSUPA all pings timed out, including when timeouts were extending to 5s.

At location 1 (G52 4XT) switch between '3G+' & 'HSUPA' occurred about once every 30s, min 12s, max 2 1/2 mins so no real opportunity to connect to internet radio and buffer up to receive audio.

At location 2 (G51 4JT) switch between '3G+' & 'HSUPA' again occurred roughly every 30s but during a couple of longer periods on '3G+' I was able to load and receive audio over internet radio which then dropped out on return to 'HSUPA'. At one point the status display briefly showed simply 'Vodafone UK' without '3G+' or 'HSUPA'.

In summary, the reported problems don't appear to be restricted to a single location and not just in areas of poor signal strength or quality. There appears to be no connectivity at all when the status display shows 'Vodafone UK HSUPA'.

Thanks all,

R212

[Retired-James]

Hi R212brick,

Thanks for the updates here.

I will keep in touch with our support teams regarding this as it does sound like a network configuration issue to me.

James

[headcheese]

Hey,

Thanks for all the details, and god to see that the Vodafone guys look t be investigating this. All good.

Right, get this. I'm back in the first location right now (BH postcode area). When the device is idle I was getting the flickering between 3G+ and HSUPA, but when I was running the ping -t -l 256 www.google.com the device consistently maintained a 3G+ connections.

I originally thought this was maybe because of the -l 256 so I repeated without it... and the same thing happened: No HSUPA getting displayed in the web interface!

I left the ping -t running for quite a while, but HSUPA never got displayed in the web interface.

It definitiely wssn't behaving like this in the other location (RG postcode area). I'll be back there on Monday so will check to see if it's still exhibiting the switching behaviour whilst the ping -t is running.

I was wondering if you'd seen any difference in behaviour at all?

Cheers

HC