PPP Session Uptime - No Connection

[Doony]

I recently signed up with Vodafone for there Fibre 2 service and I was sent a Powerhub. Things went a little pearshaped on connection day and despite a message from Openreach saying I was connected, I had no internet. I called Vodafone that evening and tech support tried a few things including what they said was a firmware update. Eventually she said I should hang up and my service should start within the next hour. To my surprise, she was right and it started working.

However, I've been keeping a close eye on my router stats, hoping DLM was going to up my speed to some degree as I'm only just getting guaranteed speed but little more. I've noticed that it permanently shows PPP SESSION UPTIME - NO CONNECTION. This is surely not normal is it? I have only found one other mention of this on this forum but no solution, if indeed it is a problem.

So before I call C/S and no doubt spend hours messing about, can anyone offer any insight into this for me?

Thanks in advance.

[Jayach]

If you are able to use the broadband the PPPoE session must have been initialised, so it does seem odd for it to show that.

Personally I would try a factory reset of the router.

For the DSL speed, could you show us your DSL stats, and also what Openreach would expect you to get. https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

[Doony]

Long story short, was contacted by private message which I assumed was a bot due to wording but foolishly thought was legit otherwise and responded with a contact number. Got a call from overseas call centre which became increasingly suspicious leading me to call fraud department.  Seems there are scammers operating on here!

Spoke to fraud department who confirmed there was nothing on my account and as such, my suspicions were probably correct.

They did however put me through to technical team who have told me there was nothing to be concerned about and a PPP session would only be relevant if a third party router was being used.  I pointed out the I've seen stats from many Vodafone routers showing the uptime be he was adamant that it wasn't something I should be concerned with. I will try a factory reset at some point but won't pursue it further unless someone suggests it's something I really need to get sorted. Happy to listen to anyone's thoughts on that.

I'll screenshot and post stats later today. I'm getting speeds higher than Vodafone's guarantee but still at the low end of the Openreach impacted line figure. I've just come from ADSL so had no idea what to expect. Was just hoping I wouldn't be at the low end. No grounds to complain though.

[Jayach]

I don't know what is happening, but all my posts today are disappearing, I'll try this last one.

@DoonyIf you are close to the impacted speed, if could be a problem at your end, so you need to try with the router in the test socket.

Post your stats before and after trying in the test socket so we can see if it makes a difference.

[Doony]

@JayachI did see your previous post then it disappeared as I tried to reply and now it's back again after I posted a general reply. Something odd going on.

I haven't tried the test socket but there's a reason for that. No idea who or when my house was wired up (but built in around 65). There are no cables going to the front removable part of the socket.  However, there appears to be two thick black cables coming through outside wall to the back of the socket. One of those goes to a BT branded junction box which is fed by a cable that goes underground. The other travels along an outside wall and then up and through wall in upstairs bedroom. I assume this feeds the extension sockets.

I have tried ADSL tests using master socket in past and it made no difference to speeds whatsoever when compared to upstairs extension sockets.

Stats are a little better than I thought but do say if anything looks wrong. I double checked BT and it states impacted rates of about 60 high, 35 low.

Line Quality

  Downstream Upstream

Current Rate	39329 kbps	8528 kbps
Maximum Rate	40547 kbps	8528 kbps
Signal-to-Noise Ratio	6.1 dB	6 dB
Attenuation	DS1 16.2 dB, DS2 49.4 dB, DS3 63.3 dB	US0 4.8 dB, US1 48.2 dB, US2 48.3 dB
Power	11.7 dBm	7.8 dBm
CRC Errors in last 1356 minute(s)	0	5
K (number of bytes in DMT frame)	0	0
R (number of bytes in RS code word)	12	16
S (RS code word size in DMT frame)	0.1910	0.8866
D (interleaver depth)	8	1
Delay	0 ms	0 ms

  Downstream Upstream

Super Frames	0	9416565
Super Frame Errors	0	5
RS Words	1697583728	367037546
RS Correctable Errors	2877	45210
RS Uncorrectable Errors	0	0

  Downstream Upstream

HEC Errors	0	0
OCD Errors	0	0
LCD Errors	0	0
Total Cells	1858839197	0
Data Cells	0	0
Bit Errors	0	0

  Downstream Upstream

Total ES	0	5
Total SES	0	0
Total UAS	29	29

[Doony]

Oh and re the PPP thing, although the PPP Session Uptime says no connection (at all times, I've had my eye on it!), if I run diagnostics, under WAN it shows PPP - Connected. So does this perhaps suggest it's just my router falsely reporting? Or is WAN PPP and PPP Session two different things?

[Jayach]

Unfortunately it is probably the extension wiring that is causing your slow speeds, you really need to get that master socket replaced with a newer one, so that the extension wiring is isolated from the DSL connection.

The stats themselves look fine.

If you report your slow speeds to Vodafone they may call out Openreach once you explain you have no test socket, as using that is part of the fault finding checks. Openreach will replace it, and hopefully fit a filtered face plate. Once that is done, you can only run the router from the Master socket.

And, no, there is only one PPPoE session, but if it's working I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Doony]

Thanks for looking at stats for me as I only semi understand them. I remember many years ago when I was with Plusnet with ADSL, someone on their community boards, who had ability to change things at their end, looked at my stats and decided we should try turning interleaving off. That greatly increased my speeds at the time and didn't cause issues. A bit of research suggests that it can't be disabled on VDLS connection though, is that right? Is that figure likely to change at all at any time or is it something that just sets when service goes live and stays that way? I have no idea if the number it shows (8) is high or not or whether a lower figure would make any difference anyway.

As far as the socket goes, I think I may struggle to get Vodafone to book an Openreach appointment as I'm well over their conservative minimum speed guarantee. It would also mean relying on wifi to connect my mesh system as the master socket is in a terrible location so not ideal. Will see how things go but I might be better off waiting until FTTP is available.

[Jayach]

I'm no great expert at DSL stats and there was lots written about interleaving (it's all ancient history now), but I just think DLM will adjust that as needed to get the best from the line. Mine's at 16ms, it seemed to go to that from 8 when DLM dropped my SNR to 3.4 to tweak the last few kbs out of my line. Here are my stats:

Line Quality

  Downstream Upstream

Current Rate	79999 kbps	20000 kbps
Maximum Rate	85679 kbps	25387 kbps
Signal-to-Noise Ratio	3.4 dB	9.2 dB
Attenuation	DS1 9.1 dB, DS2 22.1 dB, DS3 34.5 dB	US0 2.1 dB, US1 15.2 dB, US2 24.8 dB
Power	12.7 dBm	4.2 dBm
CRC Errors in last 36920 minute(s)	4	6872
K (number of bytes in DMT frame)	0	0
R (number of bytes in RS code word)	6	0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame)	0.0324	0.3819
D (interleaver depth)	16	1
Delay	0 ms	0 ms

If you do want to run from an extension, it's probably best, as you say, to stick with what you have until it is time to go to FTTP.

[Doony]

I take it the SNR figures the router shows is actually the SNR margin and not SNR itself? I was a bit thrown by that when I started looking at my stats.

How long did it take for DLM to drop it that low? I've only been with Vodafone for 6 days but bar one DLM reconnection after 3 days, it's not made any changes that I can see. Old stat screenshots from years gone by suggest my past SNR margins have often been around 3 so was wondering if DLM will drop it on my current connection. I don't know if it would make a noticeable difference to speed but I do recall a lower SNR margin seemed to correlate with higher sync speeds in the past.

On a different note, do you have any idea how BT come up with their predicted line stats? I live in a tiny road with twelve houses, all served by the same cabinet. Eight of those houses have much higher predicted speeds with only myself and immediate neighbour down as having much lower speeds. I wonder how/why our properties differ so much to the rest of them. I can't see how it can be distance to cabinet as two doors down in either direction, as well as houses directly opposite are down as far higher speeds than us.