Old VSS1 stopped working new VSS3 not working either. Looking for some knowledgeable help.

[MartinBaines67]

I had a history of my old VSS1 sometime not working and requiring a hard reset to make work. Then this week it just ceased working completely and after a long saga with telephone support - who basically just took me through steps I had done before many times - I got sent a new VSS3 (i.e. the one with the pass through power connector).

I registered this on the admin page and got a text and email telling me it was registered correctly. The new device does not appear to be working either which makes me strongly suspect netowrk issues. After a reset the device spends a long time (about an hour) with the Red power light solid and the "internet" light fllashing white. Eventually this stops and it ends in a mode with the lights thus:

Red Power - Flashing

Orange Internet - Solid

Service- OFF

Orange User - Solid

The Sure signal Serial Number is: 40123308740

Its MAC address is: 0c:4c:39:07:a7:53

My ISP is BT.

My External IP address is: 86.132.92.144   (as given by http://www.whatsmyip.net/ and also validated by checking router)

A Speedcheck gives:

Download speed: 2.45Mb/s

Upload Speed: 0.361 Mb/s

I have opened up all the ports as requestest for TCP and UDP viz: 50, 500, 4500, 8, 123, 1723

The VSS has been assigned a constant IP address by DHCP and I can ping the device on the local network.

From the router log I can see the VSS trying to get to various addresses on the ports above. Here is a snip of the activity:

Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:12 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.133.181,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:12 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.131.133,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:13 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.133.177,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:16 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.133.181,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:16 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.131.133,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:19 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.133.177,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:20 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.133.181,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:20 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.131.133,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:24 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.133.181,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:24 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.131.133,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:31 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.133.177,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:32 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.133.181,123 - [VODA5 rule match]
Thu, 2013-01-31 17:12:32 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,50124 Destination:212.183.131.133,123 - [VODA5 rule match]

A pathping as suggested elsewhere on this forum gives:

C:\Windows\system32>pathping 212.183.133.177

Tracing route to cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk [212.183.133.177]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 Martin-N220 [192.168.0.4]
1 192.168.0.1
2 213.123.107.58
3 217.32.98.161
4 213.1.69.70
5 217.41.168.102
6 217.41.168.51
7 217.41.168.107
8 acc1-10GigE-0-0-0-4.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.249.66]
9 core2-te0-0-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.249.45]
10 host213-121-193-137.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.193.137]
11 LNDGW2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.124]
12 85.205.116.6
13 * * *
Computing statistics for 300 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 Martin-N220 [192.168.0.4]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.0.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 35ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 213.123.107.58
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 217.32.98.161
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 34ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 213.1.69.70
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 34ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 217.41.168.102
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 --- 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 217.41.168.51
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 35ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 217.41.168.107
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 34ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% acc1-10GigE-0-0-0-4.l-far.21cn-ipp
.bt.net [109.159.249.66]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 39ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% core2-te0-0-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.
net [109.159.249.45]
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 36ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% host213-121-193-137.ukcore.bt.net
[213.121.193.137]
0/ 100 = 0% |

11 39ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% LNDGW2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.12
4]
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 37ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 85.205.116.6

Trace complete.

A trace route gives:

C:\Windows\system32>tracert 212.183.133.177

Tracing route to cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk [212.183.133.177]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 33 ms 32 ms 33 ms 213.123.107.58
3 33 ms 32 ms 32 ms 217.32.98.161
4 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 213.1.69.70
5 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms 217.41.168.102
6 37 ms 33 ms 33 ms 217.41.168.51
7 34 ms 33 ms 33 ms 217.41.168.107
8 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms acc1-10GigE-0-7-0-4.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1
59.249.74]
9 39 ms 38 ms 39 ms core2-te0-0-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2
49.45]
10 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms host213-121-193-137.ukcore.bt.net [213.121.193.1
37]
11 37 ms 34 ms 35 ms LNDGW2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.124]
12 36 ms 36 ms 36 ms 85.205.116.6
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

I really hope someone here can help as telephone support is driving me mad as I only seem to get a person who actually knows what an IP Address is about 1 time in 5 let alone how a femtocell works!

Thanks

Martin

86.133.

[Sukhi]

Hi MartinBaines67

I've taken a look at your VSS and can see that it last connected to our servers on the 5th of this month at 10:46. The change of an IP can cause it to drop connection, I've given it a re-sync, could you complete the process with a factory re-set?

Give that a go and let me know how you get on?

Thanks

Sukhi

[MartinBaines67]

Hi Sukhi,

THanks for the reply. I have (I think) reset the device.

Can you confirm the method for the VSS3 as all the instructions appear to refer to the earlier models. I did what I would do on the old device - i.e. hold the reset key for 30 seconds, remove from power (i.e. unplug it as it's an intengrated unit) and then plugged it back in holding the reset key down.  Unlike the directions for the old device there is no flash of lights to indicate the key should be released so I waited over 30 seconds and released it.

It then wnt into a state with power on and nothing else on. The ethernet lights appeared to be flashing, it remained like that for a short while then the "service" and "connection" lights went amber. I was in the middle of swearing and aboiut to repeat the procedure when they went off and the "internet" light came on flashing white. I have left it doing that in the hope it is updating. A look at the router logs seems to show a flow of interactions to an address with port 4500.

I will let you know if anything changes.

Regards

Martin

[MartinBaines67]

No doubt you will tell me to "wait 24 hours after reset" (which won't be until about 15:00 today) but right now things do not look promising. The white "internet" light is still slowly flashing, the ethernet light pulses very occasionally and the logs show one transaction to 212.183.131.137,4500 (the NAT traversal port) every 10 mins.

Heres a short snip from the log when I checked earlier:

Fri, 2013-02-08 07:11:12 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 07:21:13 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 07:30:59 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 07:41:16 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 07:51:02 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 08:01:02 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 08:10:58 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 08:21:12 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]
Fri, 2013-02-08 08:31:01 - UDP Packet - Source:192.168.0.10,4500 Destination:212.183.131.137,4500 - [VODA3 rule match]

It continues this approx every 10 minutes.

I keep asking what your logs show on the server or on your network. Can you see these transactions and what are they? Is the protocol you use robust enough to cope with things like UDP fragmentation if it's occuring between my network and yours?

Please give me some confort that someone is actually diagnosing what is going on here and not just continually telling me to do resets on the device and then wait. On the reset issue, no-one repsoned on how to do a reset on the VSS3 so I am still doing what I did on the VSS1 although clearly the devices are different and from different manufactures - Sagem for VSS1, Alcatel Lucent for VSS3.

You will see I have posted a couple of comments on other threads where it looks like people are having almost identical effects. It really smells of something systemic going on here. To help get this fixed I am happy to put tracers on my network to help you debug things and check whether it's my router behaving in a way you don't expect, the transit network between here and you or at your servers. If you can do traces on your side of the network I am happy to analyses them for you - I won't even charge you, I just want this fixed.

You can probably tell I am pretty frustrated with this. I am a sphisticated user - I dread to think what someone who did not know about IP and using routers would now be feeling. I suspect they would just give up and go quiet at best.

[Retired-Dave]

Hi MartinBaines67,

First things first, the VSS 3 reset procedure is slightly different. As it's relatively new, most instructions you'd have found searching the eForum would point to the older versions.

To reset the version 3 Sure Signal:

 - Press the button on the foot of the device by the Ethernet sockets.

 - Hold it in for approximately 30 seconds.

 - When the lights come back on, release the button.

There's no need to power down the new version, so can I just get you try this for me in case the other attempts didn't reset properly? I've done a fresh resync as well just to be sure.

Don't worry, though, I'm not just leaving it there.

We don't get to see individual server logs on the Sure Signal, so I can't pass you those details to have a look although we appreciate the offer. The pattern on the lights you're seeing, as well as the regular traffic bursts and the steady Ethernet pulses do all seem to point to one thing, though.

When the Sure Signal doesn't connect with our servers, it will retry periodically. The light sequence you original saw with the solid orange light shows the Sure Signal is not active as poor performance is causing a network timing issue, for which you'd need to speak with your ISP with timestamps to allow them to investigate. The change to a solid white flashing internet night is what we'd expect to see after re-starting though as this is the system initialising again.

Can you confirm if you still have the white flashing light or are you back to lights 1 and 3 being solid orange? 

As James said, we are currently looking into some reports from this end so please don't think this is being ignored. The question above is meant to help us see if the issue is one the ISP would need to look at or ourselves to help speed things up.

At the same time, you mentioned some ports, but can I get you to check that all of these have been opened for forwarding: 8, 50, 123, 500, 1723, 4500? 1723 has proven particularly useful to some BT users previously.

Finally for now, can you check that the Maximum Transmission Unit (MTU) setting on the router is set to either 1500 or the highest available (if that's lower).

Dave

[MartinBaines67]

Thanks again for the steers.

Firstly all those ports are open on the router both outgoing and I have redirected all the ports on incoming to the Sure Signal IP. Interestingly I have never seen in the logs any inboud initiated transactions on any of these ports. In fact the only outbound ones I have seen are for ports 123 (I assume oit does and NYP time sync), 500 (presumably key exchange) and then numerous on 4500 (presumably the actual NAT traversal of data). I have never seen any of the other ports attempted to be used at all.

The max MTU size is set 1500 on the WAN. I am not given an option to set it on the LAN but as that is the ethernet default I assume that is ok. The actual default BT us for ADSL is 1458 so it was a manual increase although it made no difference. I am a little worried about increase the default MTU max size though on ADSL becasue if the DSLAMs at the head end cannot cope with that it might drop packerts. I probably being paranoid there as I have not see it affect anything else.

Currently I am seeing just the white Internet light flashing.

On watching what the device did at start up when it went into the Service and Users Amber mode for a while it was after a transaction to Port 500. My assumption being that was when the VPN/IPsec (whatever you use) key exchange either failed or timed out.

The log showed it tried again after a few minutes and then went into the constant transactions to Port 4500. I was not following in real time but I strongly suspect that was when the Internet light went back to flashing white and the two amber lights went out.

From the logs it looks like there are frequent bursts of activity after that initial connect all on port 4500 but after a while they drop back to the10 minutei interval as per the clip I sent above.

Thanks for your help and dolet me know if there is anything I can do to help  diagnose. For instance if you have any traffic simulator that mimics the Sure Signal that would let packets be tracked end to end to isolate whether it's an ISP issue.

Martin

[MartinBaines67]

Just a quick update. Nothing has changed the device was still in the slow flash of the Internet light mode when I checked around 17:00 today.

I've moved the devvice location so I can see it more easily and reset it again.

It seems to have had fun and games trying its intial connect as it went into its "can't connect" state (ie service and user lights both amber power flashing) for a short while, then back to internet flashing, then back to double amber, then finally back to flashing white which is what it is currently doing.

When I chekc the logs it looks like it is having issues time syncing - there is a constant stream of requests to port 123 alternating between 212.183.133.181 and 212.183.133.133 it also is doing occasional transactions to 212.183.133.178:4500 as per usual.

So basically no change and not still working.

[MartinBaines67]

Update 2. It seems to have come to life. White Internet and Service light and phone can see 3g signal.

Looking at network logs it still seems to be polling NTP like it is having issues but it is working. Unless you can tell me you have identified a root cause I will hold my breath and cross fingers and hope it does not die again - especially when my DHCP lease expires with my ISP. I won't mark the thread as closed yet and will keep a watching eye.

[Phil]

Hi MartinBaines67,

Thanks for the updates you've provided to us.  We haven't narrowed down the route cause of the issue so I'm unable to give you that information I'm afraid. 

I'm really pleased that it's working for you now since the changes you've made though.  I hope this is still the case and it's completely working as it should be for you?

Many thanks,

Phil

[MartinBaines67]

Phil,

I am glad it's working too but let's be 100% clear - I have made no changes since it was working then ceased to work, then worked, then ceased to work and is now working again. It is on the same network, with the same router, in the same configuration. It just happens to be plugged into a different network socket. It happily worked in the old one before the fun and games, I just moved it so I could see the lights more easily - I don't think that counts as anything that made it spring into life.

Sprining into life without reason although less annoying than failing without reason does not count as a problem solved until we get to the reason.

Thanks for your help but don't stop looking for the issue, There are others here equally as baffled by similar issues.

Martin

[Retired-PaulE]

Hi Martin, 

I agree that this thread shouldn't be marked as solved yet as yor Sure Signal has started working again pretty much by itself.

Don't worry though, we are still investigating all the reports we receive  :smileywink:

Paul