Vodafone not interested in helping customers using landline phone sockets mandatory move to VoIP

[ojos]

I am a Vodafone broadband customer which includes a landline phone service. I have had landline service for many years originally provided by BT. This includes a incoming Master Socket with cabling extending from it all around my property. This interior cabling connects numerous individual traditional phone sockets all around. When I moved over to Vodafone broadband a couple of years ago, they arranged for Openreach to fit a new Master Socket suitable for the new router. Openreach told me the new Master Socket would be compatible with full fibre when that became available in my area. At the same time Openreach checked and renewed all my interior landline phone cabling to ensure that all the existing phone sockets connected to the new Master Socket.

The Vodafone router supplied to me then was model THG3000. Vodafone have now informed me that in the next couple of years or so all landline phone service will be connected through VoIP via a new type of router and that my current router does not support this.  I asked what about all my current interior cable connected phone sockets which are crucial to my use of the landline service. They responded saying "tough luck, all your phone sockets will become defunct and you will then only be able to plug a landline phone in through a single socket on the new router". I explained that this is totally useless to me, as I need landline access through sockets all around my property. They weren't interested and had not the slightest idea as to customers wishing to continue to use their multiple phone sockets. I asked if they could arrange for Openreach to investigate and do whatever necessary to save my phone sockets. Vodafone flatly refused saying "go away" and it is up to me to either solve this problem or just lose full access to my current landline phones.

I suspect I am not the only person (many of them not broadband users) in this country who has multiple landline phone sockets. Why is Vodafone apparently proposing to wreck my landline phone connections and telling me "tough luck, we're not interested in helping you solve your problem"?

[Jayach]

You post is incorrect in so many ways.

It is not Vodafone (or any of the other ISPs) choosing to do this it is the telecoms regulator.

The PSTN (public switched telephone network) will be switched off in 2025, and some lines will be digital only in the run up to that.

Vodafone have held off going to digital voice longer than some, Sky and BT have been doing it for some time.

The THG3000 is fully able to be used for digital voice, and FTTP customers have always used it.

The UK’s PSTN network will switch off in 2025 | BT Business

[ojos]

My post not totally incorrect. I am a Vodafone customer and it's therefore Vodafone who have given me the information that I have stated in my post.

Regarding my router, Vodafone have repeatedly stated that I cannot keep my existing router (Superfast broadband, which as far as I am concerned is working perfectly) but they tell me:

My Vodafone router must be changed if I want them to renew my contract for Superfast broadband

Could you please explain your disagreement with Vodafone's statement so I can get back to them with the answer you have given me viz that my router doesn't have to be changed.

Also, you have not addressed the main purpose of my post which is:

Is there some way customers can continue to make use of their existing cabled landline sockets after the changeover?

Vodafone technical support have told me that, after the changeover to VoIP-based landlines, it will be impossible for me (or any other customer) to retain use my cabled telephone sockets.  However, this afternoon, (since posting this thread), I have spoken to a helpful Vodafone customer service man who tell me he is a trained electrical engineer. He assures me an appropriate adapter can be fitted to the new technology VoIP landline system which will enable customers to continue to use their cabled phones. However, after himself speaking to Vodafone technical support he agrees with me they are wrong. So this customer service man says he plans to raise the matter with higher Vodafone management to get the matter resolved. Personally I fail to see why everyone in the country will be forced to ditch all their phone sockets as surely there must be a way of channelling the new technology digital service through to exiting phone sockets.

[Jayach]

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@ojos wrote:

I am a Vodafone customer and it's therefore Vodafone who have given me the information that I have stated in my post.

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Doesn't mean it's right, they talk a lot of nonsense.

You can certainly continue to use your telephone extension wiring with the digital voice service, as the chap you spoke to says, it requires a simple adaption to connect it to the TEL outputs on the THG3000 router, and presumably on the Pro II router also. (I haven't seen one of those in the flesh, so I can't be certain)

The only problem is it will need just a modicum of technical ability to make/buy the correct cable and it will be slightly different if it is being used on FTTC digital voice or FTTP digital voice. (For the former the Master socket needs to be left connected to the Openreach line)

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@ojos wrote:

Regarding my router, Vodafone have repeatedly stated that I cannot keep my existing router (Superfast broadband, which as far as I am concerned is working perfectly) but they tell me:

My Vodafone router must be changed if I want them to renew my contract for Superfast broadband

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That is completely wrong, the THG3000 is the router currently supplied with all contracts, except for Pro II, which has a new router. If they want to send you another one, just let them. It will make a useful door stop.

I recently renewed my Superfast 2 service, and no new router was needed/supplied.

[CrimsonLiar]

I get the feeling this is going to be an increasing line of questions!

It's hard to get definitive answers for some of the issues that the move to VOIP is going to create but the following video from the "My Mate Vince" youtube is probably a good place to start!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_KGXMcJHk

[Jayach]

Useful video @CrimsonLiar 

There have already been a few queries with people going on to FTTP, but now that Vodafone are supplying digital voice on FTTC there will be lots more.

[CrimsonLiar]

Yup, he's usually pretty good at what he's doing, though some of his jobs could be a little tidier!

[ojos]

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@CrimsonLiar wrote:

I get the feeling this is going to be an increasing line of questions!

It's hard to get definitive answers for some of the issues that the move to VOIP is going to create but the following video from the "My Mate Vince" youtube is probably a good place to start!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_KGXMcJHk

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The video is very interesting. It would certainly be helpful if Vodafone support staff would watch it, as currently they seem totally ignorant of any way of customers will be able to continue using their extension landline sockets. Currently they are just telling us "tough luck, you will only be able to plug your phones directly into the router, goodbye".

I have a couple of additional questions:

1 What about the millions of people who don't have broadband installed? Will they be forced to pay for an unwanted broadband service just to enable them to make & receive landline class?

2 What about people who have Virgin Media cable service. Will they be faced with a similar catastrophe of their landline phone extensions ceasing to work or is the cable system designed to service Virgin Media phone extensions without the need for all this extra adapter wiring?

[CrimsonLiar]

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@ojos wrote:
The video is very interesting. It would certainly be helpful if Vodafone support staff would watch it, as currently they seem totally ignorant of any way of customers will be able to continue using their extension landline sockets. Currently they are just telling us "tough luck, you will only be able to plug your phones directly into the router, goodbye".

If you've ever had the misfortune to call VF support, then you'd probably realise they work from a script, that fails as soon as anything out of the ordinary crops up!  Maybe as the POTS (Plain Old Telephone System) gets phased out, there will be a special support system set up, but more likely not!

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@ojos wrote:
1 What about the millions of people who don't have broadband installed? Will they be forced to pay for an unwanted broadband service just to enable them to make & receive landline class?

The last figures on how many homes cannot* receive broadband (extrapolated from OFCOM Spring 2022 update  ) comes in at around 0.5 million, with data from other sources on those who don't* have access  (extrapolated from BBC News ) now standing at 1.125 million.  See telecoms Universal Service Obligations.

As the POTS is decommissioned, the wiring will at least be left in place and there are plans to enable VOIP (Voice Over IP) to continue over the xDSL system, as well as providing voice-only services over FTTP where once even the POTS wiring is decommissioned/removed.  It's currently a part of the regulations that existing customers are not forced to take broadband in order to maintain a phone connection, though how that connection is provided is subject to change!  There is a further downside though since voice provision via xDSL or FTTP is less resilient when it comes to power outages!

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@ojos wrote:
2 What about people who have Virgin Media cable service. Will they be faced with a similar catastrophe of their landline phone extensions ceasing to work or is the cable system designed to service Virgin Media phone extensions without the need for all this extra adapter wiring?

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Virgin Media and Kingston Telecom are pretty much subject to the USO (it doesn't just apply to OpenReach).  If when they decide to change their systems they will still have to provide a suitable provision.  In the case of Virgin Media, some of their areas have been running a disguised VOIP system (the service split taking place at the VM cabinet) since the late 1990s - complete with the problem that you'd lose your phone line if the power went down!  The number of VM customers who have phone only is probably only in the hundreds!  *Virgin Media piggybacking phone on their data network as opposed to OpenReach piggybacking xDSL data on their POTS phone network.

*Differentiation between "cannot" and "don't".

[ojos]

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@CrimsonLiar wrote:

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@ojos wrote:
1 What about the millions of people who don't have broadband installed? Will they be forced to pay for an unwanted broadband service just to enable them to make & receive landline class?

The last figures on how many homes cannot* receive broadband (extrapolated from OFCOM Spring 2022 update  ) comes in at around 0.5 million, with data from other sources on those who don't* have access  (extrapolated from BBC News ) now standing at 1.125 million.  See telecoms Universal Service Obligations.

As the POTS is decommissioned, the wiring will at least be left in place and there are plans to enable VOIP (Voice Over IP) to continue over the xDSL system, as well as providing voice-only services over FTTP where once even the POTS wiring is decommissioned/removed.  It's currently a part of the regulations that existing customers are not forced to take broadband in order to maintain a phone connection, though how that connection is provided is subject to change!  There is a further downside though since voice provision via xDSL or FTTP is less resilient when it comes to power outages!

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@ojos wrote:
2 What about people who have Virgin Media cable service. Will they be faced with a similar catastrophe of their landline phone extensions ceasing to work or is the cable system designed to service Virgin Media phone extensions without the need for all this extra adapter wiring?

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Virgin Media and Kingston Telecom are pretty much subject to the USO (it doesn't just apply to OpenReach).  If when they decide to change their systems they will still have to provide a suitable provision.  In the case of Virgin Media, some of their areas have been running a disguised VOIP system (the service split taking place at the VM cabinet) since the late 1990s - complete with the problem that you'd lose your phone line if the power went down!  The number of VM customers who have phone only is probably only in the hundreds!  *Virgin Media piggybacking phone on their data network as opposed to OpenReach piggybacking xDSL data on their POTS phone network.

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1 I wasn't talking about people who cannot receive broadband, I was referring to people who don't want broadband but still want a traditional landline phone system. I know quite a few of them who have several phone points around the house and wish to continue to use them. They haven't the slightest interest in paying for broadband. None of them have been informed that their landline phone system is planned to be wrecked and they have to switch to broadband with only a single phone point in the house.

2 Prior to my joining Vodafone I was with Virgin Media cable service, which is totally independent of the BT originated phone system. I had high-speed broadband via new cabling from the street. However the service included new VM landline phone sockets laid throughout my property totally independent of my BT sockets (now used by Vodafone). So would I be able to return to VM and continue to use my VM installed phone sockets? Or is there a national directive saying that all traditional phone sockets must be disabled and it is mandatory for all Virgin Media customers to in future only connect a landline telephone through a VM router?