Version 3 VSS Lights (Power - flashing, Internet - off, In Service - orange, In Use - orange)

[Retired-Lee]

This thread has been created to discuss and troubleshoot the version 3 Sure Signal when the light sequence is as follows:

• Power: Flashing
• Internet: Off
• In Service: Solid Orange
• In Use: Solid Orange

Cause

This light sequence indicates the Sure Signal's not active and it has been unable to authenticate on the Vodafone network

Troubleshooting

Please restart your Sure Signal. If the symptoms continue please add the following details to this thread:

• Your speed test results from here
  
• Your ping test results from here
  
• Your external IP address from here
  
• Your Sure Signal serial number
• The results of a traceroute

Traceroute command:

On a PC:

1. Click on Start and select Run
2. Type CMD into the Run box and press enter/click ok
3. A black box will appear
4. In this box type tracert 212.183.133.177 press Enter
5. Paste the output of this command into your reply

On a Mac:

1. Open Terminal (Applications, Utilities)
2. Type 'traceroute 212.183.133.177'
3. Press Enter

This will help us get the quickest possible resolution for you.

Thanks

LeeH

[Betenoir]

Kay,

Thanks for you reply.  I am currently working with a brand new version 3 VSS.  The reason for getting this last week is that I couldn't get the VSS version 1 that I have had for a couple of years to work with the BT Infinty I had just got installed.  So while I understand your suggestion to try the unit elsewhere, it strikes me unlikely that both of these units are faulty.

FYI, I have over the weekend tried changing my n/w config in case the BT Hub firwall was soemhow at fault.  I have put the BT Hub 5 into bridged mode so it is working solely as a modem in this case and I have introduced a Netgear ethernet box as the router.  Even though all of the other devices connected to the network - servers, PCs etc. - are working fine, unfortunately the situation regarding the VSS has not changed. 

I really need this to start working and I am happy - well, at leat resigned - to having to go through log files if only I know what I should be looking for in order to isolate the problem.  Any ideas?

Regards,

BN

[Sukhi]

Hi @Betenoir 

Please test it at a different location as Kay suggested, preferably with a different ISP.

Thanks,

Sukhi

[Betenoir]

Sukhi,

Whilst I am always grateful to get a reply from the good people at Vodafone, I must confess to being somewhat underwhelmed by your comments.  You seem to be set on proving that your Sure Signal units are capable of working anywhere else other than on my site, and with any other ISP other than the one that I, and much of the UK market, currently happen to be using. 

I have purchased 2 versions of your Sure Signal units - one as recently as last week - so with all due respect, if you genuinely belief that your hardware is potentially so unreliable that both of these units have the capability of being faulty, then maybe you should courier out to my address one that you have already checked and can atest is fully functioning.  Maybe then you will feel confident enough to work on isolating the problem.

I have followed every request and instruction your colleagues have recommended both on this site and on your telephone support line in order to make your product function and I have spend a great deal of my time over the past 2 weeks in doing so, but without any progress so far.  Based on my experience and reading the mountains of evidence from others, it strikes me that while Sure Signal and its associated services seem to work well work in some circumstances, there are many others where it fails to work.

What is so frustrating is that networking is a well understood technology and coupled with the fact that Vodafone is such a massive, well equipped company that I cannot understand why you don't seem to want to carry out the necessary diagnostics in order to solve these probelms properly.  Once you have established the speed and trace route results, the port forwarding etc, surely you need to ramp it up a bit. 

It is evident that while your efforts may be well-intentioned and even successful on some occasions, they are all too frequently ineffective. I have seen some of your colleagues refer to compatbility issues and the fact that you cannot be held responsible for all routers out there. Some of this I understand and agree with, but when it comes to the the UK's largest provider of internet services and their standard modem/router this reasoing no longer cuts ice.  You have the technology; you have the skills; so what I am left asking myself is, do you as a company really have the desire?

There seem to be so many of your customers in the same boat here, that surely even you can see there is no smoke without fire.  The very fact that people go out to buy a Sure Signal singles them out as having a problem with your existing network coverage.  These people are dedicated, paying customers of yours who are not only having a problem with your standard service offering, but are having to put up with yet another problem with the solution you are proposing to fix the first.  So come on, do the decent thing; stand up and do a proper job!

Regards,

BN

[Betenoir]

The silence here is deafening.

Could someone respond please?

[Retired-Matt_B]

Hi everyone,

@Anonymous - Testing the Sure Signal in a different location under a different ISP will help rule out a hardware fault with your Sure Signal.

@Mustardears - So that we can look into this further, take a look here for how to get in touch.

We aim to reply to emails within 48 hours. If you need a quicker response, please visit our Contact us page.

@Betenoir - Could you please switch port clamping on in the BT HomeHub router settings.

@DonMacGregor - Gemma replied to your post previously asking you to check your port forwarding. Please follow the instructions below for further help:

Manually configure your router to allow port-forwarding.
In most cases, routers support a system called Universal Plug-n-Play (UPnP), which sets up port-forwarding for you automatically. If you’ve got a complicated network setup, or a complex router, you may need to enter these settings manually.

Please see the following for a list of IP addresses and port numbers that need to be forwarded to your Sure Signal's internal IP address. For instructions on how to do this, we recommend you contact your ISP or Router Manufacturer, or refer to the default guide for your particular make and model, over at http://portforward.com.

Destination IP Addresses:

• 133.177
• 133.178
• 133.179
• 133.181
• 133.182
• 131.128/26

Ports and Protocols:

• 8 – TCP/UDP                 (All routers)
• 50 – TCP/UDP               (All routers)
• 53 – TCP/UDP               (Virgin Super Hubs)
• 67 – UDP                      (Virgin Super Hubs)                                                    
• 68 – UDP                      (Virgin Super Hubs)                                        
• 123 – UDP                    (All routers)     
• 500 – UDP                    (All routers)     
• 1723 – TCP/UDP           (BT Home Hubs)          
• 4500 – UDP                   (All routers)     
• 33434 – 33445 – UDP    (Virgin Super Hubs)

Please note that in the above list of IP addresses, the notation "212.183.131.128/26" means the complete range of IP addresses between 212.183.131.128 and 212.183.131.191

Your router also needs to assign the Sure Signal with a DNS (Domain Name Server) address via DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol).

BT Infinity Customers.

If you’re a BT Infinity customer, you’ll need to log into your router admin page and select port clamping.

Please restart your Sure Signal once you’ve done this.

Thanks,

Matt B

[Betenoir]

Hello Matt_B,

Thanks for you reply.  Port Clamping has been set up my router for a week now and I can confirm it has not made the situation any better.  Equally all of the port forwarding suggested is in place and I can confirm (where I can) that this is working.  Given that I have tried 2 x Sure Signal units (different versions) and 2 x routers (different manaufacturers), I am pretty convinced that the problem I have lies elsewhere.

After speaking with BT's 2nd line support team, they have introduced me to the log files recorded by the BT Hub 5.  This is the only true way to see whether the port forwarding is functioning.  Having spent sometime to go through these logs it has become evident exactly what the problem that I and probably many others are facing. It is that the packets being sent to the router from the server with IP address 212.183.133.179 a.k.a. 'cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk' which are intended for the Sure Signal are fragmented and are consequently being rejected at my end.

The reasons for this seem to be complicated but from what I can understand essentially they relate to the ability of the network between the Vodfone server and the Sure Signal to cope with large sized data packets.  The network in this context means all of the devices - both at the user's end and the ISP's along the way.  The MTU - maximum transmission unit - is supposed to be negiotated down to the lowest level where data transmission can work, but in certain circumstances this just isn't happening.  The total Sure Signal solution was designed in the era of ADSL where larger packet sizes were fine.  In the move over to fibre and FTTC particularly ('fibre to the cabinet' and then copper wire to the premise) MTU's are smaller.

From what I can see the reason why Sure Signal seems to work fine for some people and not others - assuming the set up has been made correctly - comes down to the the specific route the data takes before it reaches you.  If it passes through routers along the way that are working well and allow the data packets through without fragmenting them, then you are the lucky one.  But this isn't always the case.

Given this situation, Vodafone are strcitly speaking probably correct when they point at the ISP as being the route of the issue.  However, this doesn't really absolve them of guilt because this situation has been going on for many years and will only get worse as more and more people move from ADSL over to fibre.  It is certainly within their power to reduce the size of the packets their servers send out when communicating with Sure Signal units and this action alone would fix the vast majority of these 'unsolved problems.'

What I do not understand presently, is if there is any other way to deal with these fragmented packets that is at my disposal.  The BT Business Hub 5 allows the ability to change the MTU setting up to a maximum of 1492 - this is already short of the 1500 demanded by Vodafone, but I have read that ratcheting down this number may even help, which seems totally counter intuitive. 

I guess I come back to what I said a couple of days ago: - why do I, a customer and not a networking expert, have to spent hours of my time trying to find out how to make my Sure Signal work, when Vodafone the supplier and the company that receives money from me cannot put some of their highly skilled networks engineers who already understand all of this and a whole lot more into help solving this problem. 

Speaking with the BT 2nd line support team, it does appear that the Sure Signal product is the most troublesome of all of the Femtocell (generic name) products currently available from the various mobile providers.  In their words, sometimes Sure Signals work and sometimes they don't but no one can ever figure out why.  Cleary it's rich hearing this from BT as their network plays a giant part in the problem.  Ideally BT and Vodafone would get together over this and given that Vodafone already buy broadband services from BT Wholesale, it strikes me that there must be some sort of technical realtionship there.  Hey forum moderators, how about escalating this to up to the higher levels?

Anyway, if there is anyone out there, Vodafone or otherwise who can shed some more light on how I my find a solution, I would be eternally grateful.

BN

[sidpr]

Hello Tech team

I installed a new sure signal 3 yesterday, registered it and received the confirmation. The VSS hasn't worked yet and is sat there with a FLASHING red light and ORANGE solId IN SERVICE and IN USE light.

I contacted your support team on the chat room and they did a manual activation and then asked me to do the reset on the VSS which I did. It is still the same.

Can you please help.

Thanks. Just in case you need it:

4.14 Mbps Upload 0.52Mps Download

Ping 29ms 4ms jitter

External IP 84.45.205.180

Serial number 42143920710

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600] (c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. C:\Users\Sid>tracert 212.183.133.177 Tracing route to cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk [212.183.133.177] over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms 1 ms router.belkin [192.168.200.1]

2 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1

3 * 4 ms 3 ms 80-77-244-1.dsl.xifos.net [80.77.245.1]

4 5 ms 6 ms 4 ms 84-45-205-177.static.enta.net [84.45.205.177]

5 24 ms 23 ms 25 ms lns15.inx.dsl.enta.net [188.39.1.18]

6 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms gi1-5.inx.dist.dsl.enta.net [188.39.1.17]

7 23 ms 58 ms 23 ms te2-2.interxion.dsl.enta.net [78.33.141.89]

8 35 ms 23 ms 25 ms te2-3.interxion.core.enta.net [87.127.236.209]

9 25 ms 23 ms 25 ms te4-2.telehouse-east.core.enta.net [188.39.127.7 6]

10 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms te0-0-2-2.telehouse-east3.core.enta.net [188.39. 127.131]

11 30 ms 31 ms 50 ms lndgw2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.124]

12 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms 85.205.0.86

13 * * * Request timed out.

14 * * * Request timed out.

15 * * * Request timed out.

16 * * * Request timed out.

17 * * * Request timed out.

18 * * * Request timed out.

19 * * * Request timed out.

20 * * * Request timed out.

21 * * * Request timed out.

22 * * * Request timed out.

23 * * * Request timed out.

24 * * * Request timed out.

25 * * * Request timed out.

26 * * * Request timed out.

27 * * * Request timed out.

28 * * * Request timed out.

29 * * * Request timed out.

30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

[arukDave]

Betenoir:

Hi. Like you, we have a BT Business Hub here in the office.  It's a total waste of space, soon to be changed for something that can do the job, hopefully.   (If not, an old Linksys with "Tomato" firmware, is ready to take it's place.)

There are two issues with these routers and the Infinity service (I know earlier you said you have a Business Hub, though since then Vodafone have downgraded you to a Home Hub, but are you also on the "Infinity" service?)

(a)  The Business Hub can only support one VPN at a time, so if you have an "endpoint" at your end for remote access to your systems when traveling, and that also uses L2TP/PPtP, you'll never get the Vodafone Sure Signal to work while the router is configured to support the other system.  Likewise, if you get the SS working, your remote access VPN wont.

(b)  On the Infinity service, BT have a lower default value for the MTU parameter than the sure signals need.   That is what causes the packets to be fragmented.   Sadly, Vodafone have crippled their own server farm, so it can not respond to any ICMP packets (not just pings) resulting in the total inability of their end and your end to negotiate for a MTU value that works, preventing packet fragmentation.   If you can manually push the MTU value up to 1500, that might fix things.   But, if you are indeed on the Infinity (fibre) service, you'll need BT to let you in, to do that also on the fibre modem box.   Of course, if Vodafone were to drop their default MTU value somewhat, that may resolve an awful lot of these troubles.

As to the port forwarding rules needed in the users router.  The only rules that are realy needed, should be based on "External IP Address", so as to filter Vodafone's server farm traffic to the VSS, leaving all other traffic, even of the same protocol and port usage, to be available for "other" services you may have.   Just filtering on port and protocols from all external addresses, has a nasty habit of breaking other things.   Sadly, the BT "Business" Hub, has no way to do such things as it stands.

It's a sad time when two large telco's cant talk to each other so as to make the users life easier, after all, WE pay their wages, dont we?

We're about to have our IP gateway messed with by "IT" in the next day or so, they are talking of putting in a Draytek router of some sort, so maybe our SS will work afterwards.   Maybe, after well over a year of pi** poor phone coverage inside a tin clad building, after Vodafone switched off a local cell site "to improve our service to you"...  Will change.  But I'm not holding my breath...

Updates to follow, in a day or three.

Regards.

Dave B.

[David_Barker]

Good morning, 

As requested have deregistered (for 7 hours) - reregistered - but the same issue remained. Have then tried at different location and it worked. Advice please?

Thanks,

David

[simonsterling]

Hi there i recently purchased the sure signal and it has not worked from day one.

results below.. thank you

Speed test:

Download 22.48 Mb/s

Upload 13.70 Mb/s

Ping 41ms

Ping test:

Ping 27ms

Jitter 5ms

External IP Address:

86.181.88.176

Serial number:

42143921049

Trace route results:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]

Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Daniel Sterling>

C:\Users\Daniel Sterling>tracert 212.183.133.177

Tracing route to cluster4.vap.vodafone.co.uk [212.183.133.177]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1     7 ms     8 ms     7 ms Vigor.router [192.168.1.1]

2     7 ms     8 ms     9 ms 217.32.145.227

3     8 ms     7 ms   15 ms 217.32.146.14

4   19 ms    18 ms   16 ms host109-159-244-154.range109-159.btcentralplus.c

om [109.159.244.154]

5   18 ms   14 ms   13 ms 217.41.169.55

6   17 ms   18 ms   20 ms 217.41.169.107

7   19 ms     9 ms   10 ms acc1-xe-0-2-1.sf.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.159.251.85

]

8   28 ms   27 ms   30 ms core2-te0-12-0-6.ealing.ukcore.bt.net [109.159.2

1. 135]

9   29 ms   24 ms   19 ms acc1-10GigE-0-5-0-6.l-far.21cn-ipp.bt.net [109.1

1. 254.108]

10   38 ms   23 ms   24 ms lndgw2.arcor-ip.net [195.66.224.124]

11   21 ms   31 ms   26 ms 85.205.0.86

12     *       *       *     Request timed out.

13     *       *       *     Request timed out.

14     *       *       *     Request timed out.

15     *       *       *     Request timed out.

16     *       *       *     Request timed out.

17     *       *       *     Request timed out.

18     *       *       *     Request timed out.

19     *       *       *     Request timed out.

20     *       *       *     Request timed out.

21     *       *       *     Request timed out.

22     *       *       *     Request timed out.

23     *       *       *     Request timed out.

24     *       *       *     Request timed out.

25     *       *       *     Request timed out.

26     *       *       *     Request timed out.

27     *       *       *     Request timed out.

28     *       *       *     Request timed out.

29     *       *       *     Request timed out.

30     *       *       *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:\Users\Daniel Sterling>