Version 3 VSS Lights (Power - flashing, Internet - off, In Service - orange, In Use - orange)

[Retired-Lee]

This thread has been created to discuss and troubleshoot the version 3 Sure Signal when the light sequence is as follows:

• Power: Flashing
• Internet: Off
• In Service: Solid Orange
• In Use: Solid Orange

Cause

This light sequence indicates the Sure Signal's not active and it has been unable to authenticate on the Vodafone network

Troubleshooting

Please restart your Sure Signal. If the symptoms continue please add the following details to this thread:

• Your speed test results from here
  
• Your ping test results from here
  
• Your external IP address from here
  
• Your Sure Signal serial number
• The results of a traceroute

Traceroute command:

On a PC:

1. Click on Start and select Run
2. Type CMD into the Run box and press enter/click ok
3. A black box will appear
4. In this box type tracert 212.183.133.177 press Enter
5. Paste the output of this command into your reply

On a Mac:

1. Open Terminal (Applications, Utilities)
2. Type 'traceroute 212.183.133.177'
3. Press Enter

This will help us get the quickest possible resolution for you.

Thanks

LeeH

[gravityisahat]

Hi Kay

Honestly I have tried everything possible - the problem is compatibility with
BT Business Hub 5. BT have done everything they can and more! - but to be frank - I am much less impressed with the response from Vodafone who have offered me compensation amounting to 50% of one months bill. Not enough to pay for a new router. I don't think this is an acceptable response. Please can you provide me with two things 1. The e-mail of a senior manager with whom I may take this issue up and 2. A suggested router to replace the BT Business hub 5 that is compatible with VSS. Thank you

[patrick_keys]

Just to keep this in perspective: this is a finger-pointing exercise between Vodafone and BT. Although there are some unexplained issues with certain models of BT router, these would disappear if Vodafone took five minutes to configure their network properly. Vodafone still can't explain why they're blocking all ICMP packets on their firewall, including those fragmentation-needed packets which tell their server to adapt to a lower MTU. They claim this is for 'security' - 

Why is this important? Simple. Vodafone's servers try to send a copy of a public certificate to the SureSignal as part of the initial negotiation. This certificate is larger than can be carried by a single packet, so is split into multiple smaller packets. Vodafone's servers assume that they can send full 1500-byte packets to the far end - which isn't the case for some types of connection (PPPoE included). What should happen is BT's BRAS (Broadband Remote Access Server) should send an ICMP fragmentation-required packet back to the Vodafone server, which will then re-send the packet with a smaller payload.

If this process can't take place, the larger packets are dropped on the floor, and never received by the SureSignal. Hence no secure channel can be established, and the SureSignal won't work.

BT has a mechanism to allow the MTU to be increased (baby jumbo frames) but not all routers support this.

Let's be clear: Vodafone could fix this problem for everyone with a one-line configuration change to their firewall. No need for customers to buy new routers, no need for customers to waste their time running through the pointless instructions provided by the tech staff on this forum. The fact that this issue has been going on for years now just goes to show how incompetent Vodafone actually is.

[gravityisahat]

By way of contrast BT responded to some bogus advice I received from Vodafone that I needed an upload speed of at least 2.5mb. They gave excellent telephone support, three visits from engineers and compensation when they were unable to improve it. Full marks to BT. Despite the efforts of the moderators on this forum who I do not blame the only offer I have had from Vodafone is from a stone walling customer support person who offered me a one off offer of £50.00 - my monthly bill is over £100 - I have never been given as much ill informed and contradictory advice for any of the many technical issues I have had in the past with telecommunication companies as I have had with Vodafone. I can only assume it will take the likes of Watchdog to frighten them into addressing this issue. Does anyone have any media connections?

[gravityisahat]

I am preparing to send this to BBC Watchdog - Does anyone have any comments or modifications?I am eager to be technically accurate and literate and I am prone to rush into things.

Vodafone provide a device called a SureSignal (VSS) that provides mobile coverage in areas that have a weak or non existent signal. This device costs £100 or in some circumstances can be part of a mobile deal. Other mobile operators offer other solutions but the VSS seems to be very popular. The problem is that it does not work with the new BT Fibre system Infinity and it seems to be the same for some other operators and systems. At present there are 92 pages on one support forum addressing just one symptom of a fault the device exhibits – no doubt there are many others. http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/t5/Vodafone-Sure-Signal/Version-3-VSS-Lights-Power-flashing-Internet-off... My monthly bill for four phones all of which rely on the VSS is over £100. Currently no voice or texts can be received at home. Vodafone offered me a one off payment of £50 as compensation not sufficient to pay the £200 needed to buy a new piece of equipment which may or may not make the VSS work. The forum is full of angry people many of whom end up giving up or buying new equipment. I understand the technical modification required to get it all to work is trivial but Vodafone can't be bothered or are technically incapable of making the change. In the meantime they continue to sell the device as an easy solution to signal coverage issues.

[Gemma]

Hi everyone,

We've recently edited a post in this thread as it breached our House Rules. Whilst we encourage conversation within the community, there are certain rules everyone must follow. This ensures the forum remains suitable for everyone, as well as being free from excess clutter.

The person whose post has been edited has been contacted privately.

If you're unfamiliar with the House Rules, please take a minute to view them here.

Thanks, 

Gemma

[patrick_keys]

Whilst the word in question is in everyday use in the British vernacular and is not considered to be offensive by most people, I do take the point, and I apologise.

However, we still need to recognise the extreme levels of frustration that Vodafone's customers are experiencing as a result of this issue. There are 92 pages of forum posts here about this issue alone, and not one of those posts actually offers a solution to the problem. Vodafone's copy-and-paste instructions for 'solving' the problem are utterly useless, and technically incorrect. They are designed to pass the buck back to users and waste their time.

Why is it that a so-called breach of forum rules makes Vodafone respond quickly, yet the Vodafone tech team have been unable to resolve this issue in 92 pages of posting? A small suggestion for the tech team: stop wasting your time policing forum posts and instead try to listen to the advice that your users have given to resolve the problem. It is clear that some of your customers understand a lot more about this issue than you do. Why do you consider your lack of attention to this problem acceptable?

[gravityisahat]

Yes it does seem peculiar that one perfectly legitimate outburst receives such prompt attention when 92 pages of complaints have produced no answer to some very straight forward questions. Please could I request that
A) all the issues raised on the forum are actually addressed rather than ignored - I have had no response to two of my previous questions one of which I reitterate as b) that this issue is adressed to the managers in charge of VSS and we are given evidence that it has been c) that the technical team check over the information they are given for factual accuracy. I am not an IT professional but even I have spotted a number of significant points of confusion. I plan to send the e-mail to Watchdog in seven days unless there is a more coherent attempt to resolve this problem in the meantime. I believe that to be perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

[arukDave]

Hi.

I hate to throw water on the fire, as both BT and Vodafone have been somewhat non suportive on this matter for some time, + personally, I have other gripes with both of them.   But...   And sorry to shout...

Vodafone's Sure Signal service DOES work with BT Infinity, BUT NOT IF YOU USE BT'S SUPPLIED DEFAULT HARDWARE!   (The "Outreach" VDSL modem, and the BT Business Hub router.)

Again, sorry to shout, but to be fair, it does work, if you want it to.

The lame BT "Business Hub" is one problem (cant support more than one VPN passthrough in any way, or firewall rules based on external IP address) and the Infininty VDSL modem appears to be another (MTU limitation, perhaps by default, but, there is no documented way to get to it's admin portal, if it has such a thing...)

We replaced both of them in one hit with a single box, a Draytek Vigor 2860n+ VDSL capable router/firewall/security device.      No doubt other similarly capable devices are available from other vendors.

"It just works" is the good news.   The cost (retail) of some £200 is the bad news.   BUT IT DOES WORK, and works very well.

The Draytek can also accept and re-assemble (I think) fragmented packet streams, so any hassle with mismatched MTU's elsewhere, are much less of a problem, if at all now.

The new box also now gives us a secure tunnel to our American HQ, lets multiple L2TP/PPtP type VPN's exist (incoming and outgoing) and can have firewall rules based on external IP addresses applied (the bigest failing BT's lame box.)   We also now have a "Guest" LAN over Wifi (and wired with another re-purposed old router) for visitors, or other needs, keeping such traffic away from the main office resources.

But the best news, is that the VSS works, and very well too.    In fact, when I.T. reset the router by mistake the other day, it took longer to re-establish a Skype conference call that they killed, than it took for the VSS to sort itself out, after the Vigor box had rebooted.

I see two issues.

Vodafone spewing out techno babble that means little, even when it might be vaguely correct, and sadly often it is not, plus not "listening" to the customers needs and requirements, after all who pays them?

BT who don't know their own hardware, as like others, we had conflicting advice from them over this (and other) issues.

Both, who seem to have the (understandable if misguided) policy of not helping the competition in any way, despite the luckless customer who PAYS them both for the services!

Then, there are ISP's such as Plus+Net (owned by BT afik) who are issuing US registered IP's to some UK located subscribers!

Feel free to get the media involved perhaps (but count your fingers first) but be aware that the VSS service CAN AND DOES WORK WELL (sorry to shout again) over BT's Infinity service, but only if the default BT supplied hardware is replaced with more capable kit.

Now...  On BT's side.   It could be semi intentional to hobble things like this, 'cos if everyone did the same trick, their back end systems would be getting hammered with the extra traffic, creating mayhem for all.    With the roll out of Fibre based broadband, I doubt if the beckground bandwidth has been proportionally increased to cope with the possible effect if everyone used it, if used to the full.

There again, if a sizable propotion of all the landline telephone subscribers on any exchange all picked up their phones at the same time, said exchange would throw a hissy fit, to put it politely...

The same applies with the mobile phone systems.   They both can have 1000's or millions of subscribers, but only support only a relatively small proportion of "active" connections at any one time.    Probably better than when I worked for "The PO", but it'll still be a limitation.

Have fun y'all.

Dave Baxter.

(Not a Vodafone person, but Ex BT, back in the Post Office Telephones days...)

[Ben_H]

Hi everyone,

I can appreciate some of the frustrations being posted by those unable to use our device in the plug and play way it's designed for.

As with any tech of this kind, we cannot guarantee 100% compatibility. This is why we state as such in Section 5 of the Ts&Cs for the device. There's also a 14 day cooling period on each one, so customers who have incompatible hardware/ISP packages can arrange a return.

Part of the licensing agreement we have to run the femto cell technology of Vodafone Sure Signal, includes being unable to fragment the initial exchange file below 1500MTU.

PPPOE is not supported by Sure Signal.

My team are here to help with general troubleshooting tips for those where the ISP/router isn't responsible for an outage. For queries where account access is needed, please use our Contact us options.

Thanks,

Ben

[simongv]

None of this explains why our sure signal has stopped working after a good year of operating with no issues.  Nothing has been changed on our side and, to the best of my knowledge, nothing has changed on the BT router side either.