Vodafone Sure Signal - Is It Compatible With PPPoE Connections?

[s4vva]

After a long time testing and reconfiguring several makes of routers I have come the conclusion that the Sure Signal is not compatible with PPPoE connections.

If anyone does have it working please post the details here (router manufacturer, ISP etc.) I would love someone to prove me wrong!

@Vodafone - Are there any plans for a firmware/device upgrade that does support PPPoE?

[noodles2k]

try using an mtu of 1454.

[kingskintim]

Hi there,

just to add my set up, I'm using a SonicWall ISA which connects to LLU via PPoE. I have all the correct ports forwarded and cant connect the VSS. I talked to support who remotely connected to my Router only to say " you probably know more about it than me" - great. (he was right on that front however). So I'm stuck with a poor signal in my office, and a £50 box which does nothing other than frustrate me.

tim 

[noodles2k]

is the SW connected to a vpn?

[kingskintim]

^^^ Hi mate, no, it's not. I have it licensed for VPN and I do have PPTP passthrough set to my server however.

I have now removed the SW and installed a "mickey mouse" Router in an attempt to see if my VSS even works. I put the VSS into a DMZ in hope it would work as the Disney router doesn't have enough options to open all the required ports the VSS requires!!

It's busy flashing the Wireless light at present - it's been going around 6 hours now. I will give it the full 24 before I give up and flush the VSS down my toilet.

Do you think it could be a VPN issue in that people with business class ISA's and Routers aren't able to get them working due to teh VPN ability of such devices?

I may un-forward my PPTP port and see what happens.

[robertsherry]

Hi Guys!!

Could do with a bit of help here regarding this issue...

I have recently installed a Netgear UTM5 Firewall, this is connected behind a new BT Business Broadband modem which is set in bridge mode.

Unfortunately the Sure Signal can only connect, apparently, through PPPoA, whereas UTM only supports PPPoE, although I can't believe there is not a workaround!!

I'v heard some people mentioning decreasing the MTU size, I'm all a bit new to this, but from what I have read it seems that PPPoA has a lower MTU than PPPoE? and therefore the packet size reaching the sure signal is now to large for it to handle?

Has anybody managed to work around it and could give me a hand?!

Thanks in advance

Rob

[fundutzi]

Did you look at this thread?

Most people here indicated if the device would work or not. 

 In the thread above I indicated why according to the protocol analyser it seems to fail. I make these recommendations:
1. Your best bet will be to lower to MTU full stop. If you don`t it will fragment and the IPSEC channel to Vodafone will fail.
2. Also try and get this just behind the PPPoE device with no NAT. (In my tests at the time this had no measurable effect though) 

3. I have free time over the next few days, if you want, contact me in Skype (fundutzi), I will be willing to help. 

Anyway. Some months later my experience came to:

1.At best you may get this device to work. In my extensive tests I concluded it will stop at some point.
2.Worst, your phones will show a good signal. Clients will tell you that the phones are "unavailable". I would ring from landline, behold it was true, confirmed many occurrences over time.

The verdict in my case, I am sorry to say, after 11 years with Vodafone, I had to terminate my contract with Vodafone. I am currently having 3 phones on PAYG from different providers to trial connectivity in the real world. 

[thermionic]

There isn't a problem with PPPoE. With the right hardware the SS works perfectly over a PPPoE Internet connection.

We need to stop talking about PPPoE and PPPoA as it just confuses those poor souls in Vodafone tech support.
H2 more things to be added to "What I know" :-

The SS DOES work over a PPPoE Internet connection as well as a PPPoA based one. (oops, I mentioned the dreaded PPP thing again)

The SS does NOT necessarily work over a connection that works perfectly with other IPSEc VPNs.

I agree that the PPPoE part is a partial red herring, but as I'm sure you're aware different IPSec Implementations have different requirements and just because one (or many) work does not mean that all will, hence my request that Vodafone explain exactly what the VSS requirements are, or why it will not work over a link that has a PPPoE section

[runrep]

Weird!!! I have had SS for 4 yrs and it worked well. Switched to plusnet fibre and it went AWOL. Spent 4 days reading blogs till my eyes popped out and pressing buttons/reconfiguring modem/SS....rang Voda (useless)....rang Plusnet (Sorry SS not supported...useless). Finally spoke to 2 helpful Plusnet guys and asked them to read the flaming blogs (dont know if they did but they promised to escalate....?). The blogs say this wont work with PPoE only PPoA. So I gave up......Four days later I looked at SS. Blow me down, four lights and working like a charm!!! So doesnt work with PPoE.....WRONG...it is!!!
Did Plusnet change something meanwhile; Dunno? All I can tell you is, it CAN work with PPoE, coz it IS as of now.
The ONLY thing I can suggest is that VODA say it needs a static IP. So for the princely sum of £5 plusnet gave me my own IP. Stuffed it in...nada. 4 days later....it works!
Frustrated but v happy. GL all.

[UKenGB]

I agree that the PPPoE part is a partial red herring, but as I'm sure you're aware different IPSec Implementations have different requirements and just because one (or many) work does not mean that all will, hence my request that Vodafone explain exactly what the VSS requirements are,

Of course. I just wanted to point out that use of IPSec alone is not the cause of the problem.

or why it will not work over a link that has a PPPoE section

Be careful how you phrase that. It sounds like you're saying PPPoE will cause it to fail, but this is demonstrably not the case. There are documented examples on this forum of the SS working perfectly over PPPoE. The problem seems to occur when a PPPoE/PPPoA bridge is used, but I cannot say for sure this is 100%. There will undoubtedly be other (possibly unrelated) problems and maybe it's possible for that bridging to work, but I don't know of any hardware other than the Vigor 100/120 that can perform PPPoE to PPPoA bridging. Those that purport to do so are usually actually referring to PPPoEoA, but we don't want to go there.

[thermionic]

They are making a claim without any backup or reference. I'm quite happy for them to make the claim, as long as they provide the reference for us to understand the "why"

If they came back and said that the RPY needed to be at least 78 in combination with the HGT no more than 276, and that most PPPoE implementations would not provide this, it would at least provide us with something to investigate further, or go back to manufactures with and ask if their equipment can be tuned to provide it. RPY and HGT are of course made up three letter acronyms, not real one 🙂

Instead there is this blanket "it will not work" passed on to us by people that that appear to be simply repeating what they have been told with no comprehension, and because of their lack of comprehension, a question that we might ask can be subtly and unknowingly changed to have a very different meaning, such as the previous answer that the VSS does not support PPPoE, when this question was not asked.



So my previous comes from trying to ask a question that Vodafone cannot misinterpret.

perhaps "or why Vodafone claim that the VSS will not work over a connection that has a PPPoE section non adjacent to the VSS" might be even better.