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Other broadband queries

Connecting 2 Vodafone routers but no internet connection on second router

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sakijura
3: Seeker

Hi all! 😊

 

I have 2 identical Vodafone Hubs. I would like to extend a wired connection from the 1st router to the 2nd router by connecting the secondary router to the primary one. Exploring this forum and after some googling, I have taken the following actions.

 

Router 1 is connected to the ONT Fibre box onto the WAN port. The internet is working fine on this one.

Gateway Network: 192.168.1.1 (standard)

DHCP Server Activated with range: 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.199

 

 

Router 2 is connected to Router 1 through an ethernet cable from LAN to LAN port. The internet button is flashing red, however Wi-Fi LED is stable white.

Gateway Network: 192.168.1.2 (changed to give it a unique IP address)

DHCP Server De-activated.

 

(Yes I am certain they are not mixed as I made sure to turn off the other one and only leave one connected while changing the settings. I am also able to enter the router settings on for both routers simultaneously as they are connected to each other through a cable, I'm just not getting an active internet connection.

 

The Wi-Fi settings are sorted with the correct channels so that isn't the problem. The problem is within the wired connection.

 

When I connect a LAN cable from my PC to Router 1, the internet is working fine.
When I connect a LAN cable from my PC to Router 2, the cable is detected and it shows a broadband symbol, but no active internet connection.

 

None of the cables are defect as I have tested them using other devices as well.

 

Does anyone know what could possibly be wrong or why I'm not getting an active internet connection on the 2nd router? Any help would be appreciated! 🔧

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@network123 wrote:
My other alternative would've been perhaps don't use two VF routers... Double the trouble.

I rather like the Vodafone router (THG3000), and what the OP is trying to achieve worked well for me.

Just get a dedicated WAP or switch (whichever OP is trying to achieve here).

That was my first thought as well, but maybe money is tight. Waste not, want not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH0NT9RLAvQ

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21 REPLIES 21
CrimsonLiar
13: Advanced Member

Because the gateway is the address internet data is routed to!  When your data arrives at the gateway device it is then routed either over the WAN or DSL connection and not through the network to the other router!  To have any chance you would need to change the gateway address on the embedded network to be that of the primary router.  There is also much more difference between a router and switch than just turning off the DHCP.

 

While I wish you good luck, I doubt you are going to get this set up to be trouble free!

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network123
5: Helper

Hang on... Why have you given DCHP ranges between .10 and .199? Revert back to .2 and .199, and try again.

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

I can't think of any reason why it would not be working.

The switch in the second hub should be working as a switch, and as long as the DHCP is switched off the the rest of the settings shouldn't matter too much.

Do an ipconfig on the PC just to be sure it is getting the correct gateway from the first router.


Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : broadband
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::5112:d2d7:434b:44e1%4
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.17
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

 

 

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CrimsonLiar
13: Advanced Member

Not a good idea, it would enable the primary DHCP router to potentially assign .2 to a different device!

*Ranges here for the LAN are 192.168.127.16 to 192.168.127.239 with infrastructure/servers in lower region and fixed address IOT in the upper range.  All devices in those ranges with Manual IPs so should I need to reset the router, I only have to exclude the ranges and not set up Static IPs on the router!  *My IOT devices that don't need manually set local addresses don't have them!

 

The second router is still acting as a router and not a switch so having the gateway address of the second router set to 192.168.1.2 even if this is not being broadcast to clients is still a problem.  Intenet data will still be routed via the WAN or DSL ports, hence double NAT may be preferable if you can live with it!

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@CrimsonLiar wrote:

Not a good idea, it would enable the primary DHCP router to potentially assign .2 to a different device!

 



@sakijura wrote:

Router 1 is connected to the ONT Fibre box onto the WAN port. The internet is working fine on this one.

Gateway Network: 192.168.1.1 (standard)

DHCP Server Activated with range: 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.199

 


Why would it potentially assign .2 to another device if it's outside it's scope?

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

Although it would probably be better to put the 2nd router on a different address completely, say 192.168.2.1.

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CrimsonLiar
13: Advanced Member

Regards the 192.168.1.2 comment, I was referring to the post from @network123 , where changing the DHCP reservation range back to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 would have put the secondary router (192.168.1.2) back into the scope of the primary routers' DCHP allocation.  Most of the time it'll work, but it's certainly not good practice to place manually IP allocated devices into the DHCP assignment range - statically assigned devices it's debatable.

Changing the subnet on the secondary router could help if the setup were double NAT, but it still doesn't get around the problem of how the secondary router is routing internet traffic.  

 

*I'll freely admit I dislike double NAT, it's never worked properly for me, and I would seek to prevent it wherever possible - even though it does appear to work flawlessly for some people!

 

**Obviously this setup is pretty easy to replicate without disturbing the main network, so if I have the time I may have a go later this afternoon!  It'll provide some relief from trying to set up the router to work as a Mosquitto (MQTT) server!

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@CrimsonLiar

Sorry, I hadn't realised you were specifically referring to @network123's post.

I've never had a problem with double NAT, but still avoid it, just in case.

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@CrimsonLiar wrote:

Changing the subnet on the secondary router could help if the setup were double NAT, but it still doesn't get around the problem of how the secondary router is routing internet traffic.  

I'm not sure I understand the problem. The devices will all be getting their internet settings from the first router and as all the data will be going via the switch in the second router the routing functions shouldn't enter into it. (Apologies If I'm exposing my lack of complete knowledge on the subject)

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sakijura
3: Seeker

I'm still trying to get my head around what has been said in the thread. I must admit my technical knowledge isn't as well shaped either on network installations. From what I can see it looks like the 2nd router is still acting as a router rather than a switch and that's what I'm trying to fix. I just want it to act as a switch.

 

Attached I've added some screenshots of the current setups and ipconfig results:

 

Vodafone hub 1 gateway settingsVodafone hub 1 gateway settingsVodafone hub 2 gateway settingsVodafone hub 2 gateway settingsIPConfigIPConfig

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The IP config results have the same DHCP / Default gateway, no matter which router the PC ethernet cable is connected to.

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CrimsonLiar
13: Advanced Member

My understanding is: In part, it comes down to how the software on the router is coded.  How a professional router handles the "gateway" may not be the same as how our consumer-grade equipment handles it.  The problem comes when you have a consumer router with a WAN connection that is treated pretty much as an uplink port irrespective of whether it's defined as the gateway or not!  Local data gets shuffled across the switch as you would expect, but anything outside the local subnet gets directed to the uplink - in this case the WAN/DSL!

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@sakijura wrote:

The IP config results have the same DHCP / Default gateway, no matter which router the PC ethernet cable is connected to.


As long as that is the first router (192.168.1.1) it should work. can't see why it doesn't.

I've got 3 Vodafone routers here, if I get time I'll try to duplicate your set up later.

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

Well I duplicated your setup, and I am typing this connected to the second routers Wi-Fi. It all seems to work fine.

Jayach_0-1653750214156.png

I tried it on Ethernet too.Screenshot 2022-05-28 160903.jpg

I can only suggest factory resetting the second router and starting again.

 

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CrimsonLiar
13: Advanced Member

So modem > Asus GT-AX6000 > HG2500 (lan to lan) caused way more havok here than I'd expected.  Connecting to the internet via the HG2500 meant no connection at all, the only page I could access was the HG2500 WebUI!  Connecting to the Asus and then starting the HG2500 slowed web pages down dramatically and thrashed my network switch even though it should not have been in any routed pathway.  If I then re-connected to the Asus after the HG2500 had been started I could only access local devices by their IP addresses (even local devices here are usually connected using their hostnames - I'm lazy and forgetful), online pages threw up an error page from the remote DNS servers I tried to use.  Bizarrely only hostnames that continued to work were modem and modem.man .  In order to resume normal service I had to reboot the whole local network!

 

*How badly that went wrong is a little beyond my understanding!

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network123
5: Helper

@CrimsonLiar wrote:

Regards the 192.168.1.2 comment, I was referring to the post from @network123 , where changing the DHCP reservation range back to 192.168.1.2 to 192.168.1.199 would have put the secondary router (192.168.1.2) back into the scope of the primary routers' DCHP allocation.  Most of the time it'll work, but it's certainly not good practice to place manually IP allocated devices into the DHCP assignment range - statically assigned devices it's debatable.

Changing the subnet on the secondary router could help if the setup were double NAT, but it still doesn't get around the problem of how the secondary router is routing internet traffic.  

 

*I'll freely admit I dislike double NAT, it's never worked properly for me, and I would seek to prevent it wherever possible - even though it does appear to work flawlessly for some people!

 

**Obviously this setup is pretty easy to replicate without disturbing the main network, so if I have the time I may have a go later this afternoon!  It'll provide some relief from trying to set up the router to work as a Mosquitto (MQTT) server!


My other alternative would've been perhaps don't use two VF routers... Double the trouble.

 

Just get a dedicated WAP or switch (whichever OP is trying to achieve here).

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@network123 wrote:
My other alternative would've been perhaps don't use two VF routers... Double the trouble.

I rather like the Vodafone router (THG3000), and what the OP is trying to achieve worked well for me.

Just get a dedicated WAP or switch (whichever OP is trying to achieve here).

That was my first thought as well, but maybe money is tight. Waste not, want not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH0NT9RLAvQ

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network123
5: Helper

@Jayach wrote:

@network123 wrote:
My other alternative would've been perhaps don't use two VF routers... Double the trouble.

I rather like the Vodafone router (THG3000), and what the OP is trying to achieve worked well for me.

Just get a dedicated WAP or switch (whichever OP is trying to achieve here).

That was my first thought as well, but maybe money is tight. Waste not, want not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH0NT9RLAvQ


That's a fair point, will give it a try one day with the VF router. Haven't had the best experience with using old routers for this, hence why I went straight for a cheaper one of the Netgear extenders wired in, which I already had around (does the job adequately for my use though!).

 

Edit: I do like the router itself, just the limited customisability that drive me nuts (e.g Wifi channels). Great video by the way, should also help the OP.

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

@sakijura wrote:

I'm still trying to get my head around what has been said in the thread. I must admit my technical knowledge isn't as well shaped either on network installations. From what I can see it looks like the 2nd router is still acting as a router rather than a switch and that's what I'm trying to fix. I just want it to act as a switch.

 

Attached I've added some screenshots of the current setups and ipconfig results:

I'm not at home at the moment, but now the pictures have been moderated, I can't see why it wouldn't work.

I would switch off the IP6 settings and the guest WiFi while you are trying to get it to work. Once it is working you could then try "tweaking" it. When I get home I shall post pictures of my setup on the second router. I made no changes on the first router.

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Jayach
16: Advanced member

O.K. I'm connected back into the 2nd router, which is connected LAN to LAN.

Jayach_3-1653852302656.png

Jayach_2-1653852264410.png

Jayach_4-1653852418936.png

 

Can't remember if I changed anything else. As I say I didn't change anything in the 1st router, so yes the DHCP in the first router could issue the same address (In case anyone feels they need to point that out), but it will be no trouble either removing it from the scope or setting as a static address.

If you have queries about any specific points, just ask.😄

 

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