VSS not working with BT Infinity

[tpoulton]

We have recently upgraded to BT Infinity from a 'normal' BT broadband service and now the VSS has stopped working, the power light stays solid for a minute or two and then starts flashing slowly. No other light show apart from when they cycle every now and then.

We have a BT Business Hub 3 and after searching around and reading many, many posts I have enabled port clamping (to set the key exchange to UDP 500) and added the following rules for port forwarding:

TCP 8
TCP 50
UDP 500
UDP 4500
UDP 123

I tried setting the MTU to 1500 however it was already set at the maximum value of 1492. I've done a hard reset and waited well over 24 hours.

What else do I have to do? I read lots of people talking about 'resyncing' however I can't find this option when I login, is this something that has to be done by Vodaphone?

[tpoulton]

The router is set to the maximum MTU which is 1492

I already had all but port 1723 set up for port forwarding. I don't know what protocol 1723 is meant to accept so I just added a new rule for TCP and UDP. I have restarted the router and hard reset the VSS but still only one light.

I will try and connect it to another connection, although to be honest I'm not sure where I'm going to be able to do that!!

In the meantime are there any other steps I can try, I'm assuming you're working with BT to resolve this issue swiftly?

[Retired-Lee]

Hello tpoulton,

Thanks for your post.

BT have tested a working VSS on all of their products and didn't find any issues with set up or the continued running of their product in conjunction with the VSS.

Let me know how you got on with the VSS on another connection.

Cheers,

LeeH

[Jimfew]

Hi Lee,

I have spoken to BT and they do have problems with some of their Infinity connections using the VSS. They say that some work and some don't. At the moment, they say, they don't know what is causing this issue. The tech guy I spoke to at BT says they are working on it as a priority. They did say that they are having problems with their fibre management server (MOTIVE) which is a thrid party system which provides management to the fibre routers remotely. It seems that this system is not operating properly for some BT fibre routers and might be the reason for the problems some are seeing.

For me, the BT Business Fibre Hub V3 does not work so I moved over to an ASUS RT-AC66U and it worked first time. I think the issue is to do with the jumbo frames and the ASUS handles these properly on PPPoE networks. I cannot prove this, however but I do know that I now get a stable VSS and a stable internet connection by making the change. It could also be that, by switching to the ASUS I now do not need the connection to the MOTIVE remote management system and, therefore, any issues with that do not affect the VSS connection to the VF servers. Since I changed to the ASUS I have had no issues with either my internet or the VSS and both remain up and stable 24/7.

Can you confirm if the new V3 VSS recently launched does Path MTU Discover and alters the packet size accordingly? If it does this it will help the problem with several people on BT Infinity on PPPoE with an MTU 1492.

Jim.

[Retired-Dave]

Hi Jimfew,

I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure on the all the changes with the new version of the Sure Signal. I know it's designed to be a more convenient size and handle twice as many concurrent calls, for example, but not whether Path MTU Discover is included.

We've generally found few issues with a maximum MTU of 1492, but I can appreciate how useful this could be, so I'll check with the guys in the know and get back to you.

Dave

[Retired-Dave]

Hi Jimfew,

I’m afraid I couldn't get you the information you requested as we do not make public detailed configuration information about our Sure Signal product.

Dave

[Jimfew]

OK but it's hardly commercially sensitive information.

Can you at least say if the V3 SS is in any way different to the V! and V2 in the way it works other than just the form factor (it's size and display).

Thanks, Jim.

[allegoricus]

Hi Jimfew,

"OK but it's hardly commercially sensitive information."

I wouldn't have thought so either, but you can't even get anything out of Alcatel without a support contract and it's surprisingly difficult to find even generic information. The only literature obtainable directly is sales fluff.

The VSS really does the same job as a local network cell, except that it will only recognise phones that are registered to itself. A new version isn't going to add any new functionality (unless it's able to support 4G, I suppose). Cheaper to manufacture is my best guess. 😉

In overall terms it's not a big deal, and the architecture will, I guess, be similar to this: http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2008/6186.htm with the Femto Gateway behind the Vodafone firewall. There may perhaps be a CSS in front of it, but I don't see there being much more to it.

TTYL,

Peter

[Jimfew]

Hi Peter and thanks for the info.

My main question is very specific. Does the new VSS v3 add the Path MTU Discover functionality and then adjust it's packet size accordingly. The existing versions, V1 and V2 both assume a fixed MTU of 1500 and expect the network to handle it. This is not an issue with PPPoA WAN in the UK which have traditionally used an MTU of 1500 but with the growing adoption of the more robust PPPoE WAN in the UK (especially BT Infinity) and its standard MTU of 1492 the need to the VSS to be upgraded to a more modern TCP/IP interface is increasing. Most people, me included, have to rely on their router to handle the jumbo framed packets properly to allow the VSS to work. Obviously, this is more technically tricky than previously. In my case (and others) the BT Fibre Router does not work with the VSS on BT Infinity.

So I just wondered if the V3 included this enhancement. It will, of course, become obvious once anyone gets the V3 and can do a deep packet inspection (as I can) when this will expose the truth. I was just hoping VF would help us before resorting to this method.

Jim.

[tpoulton]

So the obvious question is... what do I do now?

I'm sorting all of this out for my father (as he's not technical) who uses the VSS for his business phone, which as I'm sure you can appreciate is quite critical. The VSS worked on our previous BT connection, and now it doesn't, so due to poor VF network coverage (considering we live in a fairly large town in the South East) he now doesn't have a sufficient signal with which to use his phone.

I can see three options:

1) Switch from BT Infinity - Downgrading our internet connection just for one inflexible device is an unacceptable compromise, and as the service is provided through the business, BT is our only option.

2) Buy a new router - To go with an option that apparently works and is stable (see above, thanks Jimfew) is expensive, and finding a more cost effective alternative (assuming one exists) would take time and effort, as well as potential future hassle from moving away from a perfectly good BT supported and mainstream product.

3) Upgrade to the new VSS v3 - Obviously this is only an option if the new version supports BT Infinity.

I'm aware that this is not a problem for all BT Infinity VSS users, however there does seem to be a significant number of people reporting this issue. To be honest "BT have tested a working VSS on all of their products and didn't find any issues with set up or the continued running of their product in conjunction with the VSS." seems like a cop-out to me as you have stated "the BT Infinity/Sure Signal combination works, so it's not a block incompatibility", therefore It's up to you VF to recreate this issue and run tests yourself, or work with BT to resolve the issue and release a firmware patch, or if that's not possible, be in a position to ADVISE paying customers about their options.

With regards to the VSS v3, answering the question: Will the VSS v3 address the well know incompatibility issues with BT infinity? with "I couldn't get you the information you requested as we do not make public detailed configuration information about our Sure Signal product" makes it sounds like VF haven't addressed the problem, a simple yes / no would be enough for all of us to know where we stand and wouldn't release any detailed configuration information which I can fully understand the desire to withhold.

I appreciate that both BT and VF are potential causes of the issue, however going back and forth between the two would inevitably degrade into an unproductive blame game, and I don't think it's the responsibility of the customer to solve complex technical configuration issues. Given that customers use VF for business as well as personal services, being without signal is more than just an inconvenience and I would have expected more support from a company that is more than capable of providing it.

I am grateful for the responses so far, however part of the reason for posting on this forum was for other customers with the same issue to find a swift and simple solution, as I was unable to find one myself. So far neither them, nor I, have received such advice.

[Jimfew]

At present, the only sure way I could suggest to get your VSS working on BT Infinity is to buy a new router. At present the V3 VSS is an unknown quantity and unless VF tell us it works in a different way on BT Infinity, I have my doubts about buying it.

So, for me, your only option is to buy a ASUS RT-AC66U router. Cheapest UK price is around £166 at Scan or Dabs. You can get it cheaper from the USA or Canada but I wouldn't do that as their wireless comes under a different standard to the EU.

I am sure other routers work but others will have to verify that they have it working on BT Infinity to help you.

So, your choices are a bit restricted but at least there is one reasonable option to get it working.

Jim.